The Fall of Manga and Anime.

[Altima]

I found this article at IGN.com. A link to it http://anime.ign.com/articles/881/881499p1.html

The Fall of Manga and Anime
Chobot looks at the fractures in the industry, and how they're affecting her enthusiasm for its products.
by Jessica Chobot
June 12, 2008 - It's time to say the thing that Japanophiles and otaku aren't supposed to say: I am bored to tears with manga and anime here in the US of A.

After one of our contributors posted about the apparent decline of TokyoPop earlier this month, it got me thinking more and more about my increasingly dismissive attitude towards what was previously one of my more passionate hobbies.

For any anime/manga aficionado whose paying even a small amount of attention, it is obvious that TokyoPop isn't the only one struggling. Geneon has been essentially dissolved. ADV has been oddly silent of late which could be good or bad, but judging how some of their fellow competitors are faring, chances are it's the latter. In fact, the only two publishers seem to have found some stability and success: Viz, with their massively popular shojo/shonen titles, and Funimation, with the never-ending Dragon Ball Z and One Piece franchises alongside some quality live-action movies.

While it is all fair and good to try and piece together what's happening within the manga and anime trade by reading between the lines of press releases and rumor mongering, it still seems somewhat disconnected from what made manga and anime flourish here in the states in the first place: The fans.

As Ramsey stated in his article, the current state of the economy, the cost of books and DVDs, file-sharing, the "gray" legal area that fan-subs fall into, etc… all of these things have had an impact on sales. Yet the problem is a little bit more complex than unfortunate fans with empty pockets and questionable legality issues.

From a collector's standpoint (that collector being "moi"), there's a slight stink of "get rich quick" scheming that has sullied the US manga/anime market. The over-saturation of mediocre product for the sake of having full bookstore shelves is one of the more obvious problems. For every Death Note that is imported and translated for English audiences, there are ten other titles that, for lack of a better phrase, are complete and utter crap.

Various distribution companies, having caught on to the fact that girls were spending their hard-earned dollars on shojo titles, instantly bombarded stores with pile after pile of any and all romantically-inclined manga in the hopes of cashing in on the craze. Companies that should have never attempted to delve into the unfamiliar waters of shojo comics (Harlequin Romance's release, in conjunction with Dark Horse Comics, of the Harlequin Pink line) tried to get their greedy hands on a piece of the action.

This demonstration of blatant disregard for the taste and intelligence of their targeted readership is, at its best, foolish, and at its worse, insulting.

The problem doesn't just begin and end with "girl" manga/anime either. Many of the themes found in various manga, whether shojo, shonen, comedy or others, come off as stale and unimaginative. Fans have been inundated with the same plot lines, same dialogue, same character backgrounds and same art style. While the argument of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," can be made, the counter notion of, "too much, too soon," also holds a certain amount of relevance.

Another slightly questionable and very controversial practice from the hard-core fan POV has been TokyoPop's aggressive push of OEL (Original English Language) manga. While the argument over whether or not OEL manga is or is not "legitimate" manga can be argued back and forth forever as a personal taste issue, things get a little more sticky when one references the 2005 article by Publisher Weekly. In the article, Viz publicity director, Evelyn Dubocq is quoted as suggesting that companies are only pushing original authors because, "they are struggling to find licensed content. Manga are Japanese in origin." Her statement is backed up when, in the same article, James Killen (a graphic novels buyer for Barnes & Noble) states that the Japanese licensed titles outsell the OEL titles. While TokyoPop rallied back with some very strong points in favor of OELs, given TokyoPop's current press release and supposed state of affairs it looks as if Viz may have sunk 'Pop's battleship in this debate.

With the constant and ever increasing influx of manga and anime, a certain mystique has long been missing from "the hobby." No more are the days when anime and manga had to be special ordered from some independent Asian imports shop. No more trolling through the basements of various neighborhoods comic stores for that old VHS of Ranma ½. Similar to the current videogame market, the argument that in exchange for ease of acquirement and inclusion of both "hardcore" and "casual" fans, companies are shooting for the lowest common denominator: A "jack of all trades but master of none" attitude where everyone gets a little bit of something, but none of it is very good.

Before the Wachowski brothers pillaged Speed Racer. Before Adult Swim broadcast decently English-dubbed animes featuring short blonde boys who know alchemy. Even before Ghost in the Shell was released on the big screen to select art-house audiences. Hell, before I was even in college, you knew the manga you were reading or the anime you were buying was assured to be of high quality. The shows or books would be in-depth and pushing the boundaries of anything you had ever seen before because if the companies in Japan felt that the title was worthy enough to sub-title and release it in the States then there must be something there.

Now, with most Western publishing companies pushing every license they can get their hands on, companies that shouldn't be in the game are attempting to stick their foot in the door for no good reason whatsoever. Other companies are trying to fill a void or establish new "genres" of manga/anime in order to keep milking their cash-cow. Simply put, US buyers and fans have become overwhelmed with a watered-down product.

As terrible as this may sound, I'm a little glad to see some of these companies shrinking their numbers and cutting back on production. I'd like to see the manga/anime/otaku lifestyle come full circle and resemble its former golden glory days once more.

It's all about quality over quantity, people. Remember that.

I think he is partially right. It is hard to find a good quality anime dub over here in the USA. Hell it is hard to find a good anime to watch even if the dub may be good because the anime is boring, bad, or unimaginative as they said in the article. I hate watching something that I feel I have seen before.

I don't mind most dubs as I know a voice actor or actress just by hearing them anymore and I have grown quite fond of many of the people involved with anime voice over. Of course a voice can help you to like or hate a series, but storyline and character development is key. In the last few years I can only name a few good anime that have been released. I wasn't surprised that Viz, and Funimation were at the top of the anime world, they seem to put out the best and most varied series.

Not anime I have seen in the last year as I have watched older titles too but that have been released in the last few years.

I will name a few good anime titles of the last 3 years or so.

Ghost in the Shell SAC 2nd gig
Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex
Death Note
Code Geass
Moribito (I wish it would get new episodes soon.)
Appleseed Ex Machina
Vexille
Hellsing Ultimate
Ergo Proxy
Noein (Although it was confusing a bit.)
Witchblade
GunSword
Black Blood Brothers (Still need 2nd season, but like what I have seen thus far.)
Tactics

Others that were good, but I expected more from:

Devil May Cry - Needed more action, carnage, and destruction. More bloodshed and evil demons as well.

Black Lagoon - I'm not sure if the story is even over after Second Barrage. It just seemed to have little or no story at all near the end. It had a ton of action, but that was it.

Tokko - I think this series needed more episodes.

That isn't too many good series over the last few years to buy. I have a lot more to watch like 200 volumes of anime and Fate Stay Night will be the next one I watch, I will tell you what I think of it at a later time.

I think if anime cost less money, like no more than $20 a volume that the anime world would be doing better. They also need to stop fansub groups and the illegal download of their anime, which Viz is doing with their free watching on their website which made Dattebayo at least stop subbing Naruto. I also think you should get at least 5 episode per volume as well.

What do you all think about the manga and anime world and how it needs improvement?

[Don Chipotle]

Originally Posted by Altima

I found this article at IGN.com. A link to it http://anime.ign.com/articles/881/881499p1.html



I think he is partially right. It is hard to find a good quality anime dub over here in the USA. Hell it is hard to find a good anime to watch even if the dub may be good because the anime is boring, bad, or unimaginative as they said in the article. I hate watching something that I feel I have seen before.

What do you all think about the manga and anime world and how it needs improvement?

I disagree with your dub sentiments. Good dubs are easy to find, it's just people are so adamant on only watching subbed that they think any dub is inferior just because they're speaking English. And there's been plenty of good to decent anime in 2008, One Outs, Toradora!, Shikabane Hime Aka, Yozakura Quartet, Kannagi, To Aru Majutsu no Index, Mouryou no Hako, Chaos;Head. And there's promising series on the horizon this month.

But from what I read of that, it seems he's upset over the amount of titles available in the English language. And that's just silly.

[Goldiroxxor]

Originally Posted by Drooglebugle

I disagree with your dub sentiments. Good dubs are easy to find, it's just people are so adamant on only watching subbed that they think any dub is inferior just because they're speaking English. And there's been plenty of good to decent anime in 2008, One Outs, Toradora!, Shikabane Hime Aka, Yozakura Quartet, Kannagi, To Aru Majutsu no Index, Mouryou no Hako, Chaos;Head. And there's promising series on the horizon this month.

But from what I read of that, it seems he's upset over the amount of titles available in the English language. And that's just silly.

Personally. I'd rather take Dub, because a good portion of subbers are doing a horrible job at writing the subtitles. I've seen a many bad ones already. And it was from a good site I got some of it from. Either that or they don't even bother subbing which i found surprising. :/

So yeah. I'd rather take something more official with brought to the US dubbing over fan subs any day.

[Yvlla]

What I'm wondering is how the recent licensing of a bunch of unreleased anime classics - Hunter x Hunter, Monster, and one other - plays into this. And if Dark Horse goes under Imma be pissed.

Originally Posted by Drooglebugle

Good dubs are easy to find, it's just people are so adamant on only watching subbed that they think any dub is inferior just because they're speaking English.

In that case, the struggling publishers should simply release them with subtitles to cut back on costs, no?

Originally Posted by Gunoboe

Personally. I'd rather take Dub, because a good portion of subbers are doing a horrible job at writing the subtitles. I've seen a many bad ones already. And it was from a good site I got some of it from. Either that or they don't even bother subbing which i found surprising. :/

So yeah. I'd rather take something more official with brought to the US dubbing over fan subs any day.

The publishers also sub the series, and that's what we're really talking about. Plus, I'd really love to see you pick the dubbed version of Higurashi over the subbed. I've got the second highest threshold for cute on this site, and even I couldn't stand Rena's voice.

[Altima]

Yeah what they seem to be talking about is the animes that the companies choose to dub. They always pick lame shows anymore, or at least shows that we have seen before like the same kind of ecchi, or comedies we have already seen.

Another thing the article seemed to say is that the quality in the anime world has gone done which means that the Japanese are trying to put out quantity over quality, and it just isn't working.

I think if they passed harsh laws across the world about fansubbing animes and all of that, that some groups would stop subbing them and people would be forced to pay to watch them online or buy them in the store once they are released on dvd.

Viz has taken a step to keep its anime sales up with having their shows watchable on their website which has at least made Dattebayo stop subbing Naruto Shippuden.

When they come to America to be dubbed and what not the companies need to have at least 5 episodes on each volume, special features other than previews, and credits, maybe with some interviews and behind the scenes stuff included on each volume. They should also try to have volumes in the series that are special editions that come with something extra like an action figure like Death Note did.

Of course the main thing is cost. No normal anime volume should cost over $19.99 new and speical editions should run around $24.99 depending on what comes in the SE edition.

[Setzophone]

Originally Posted by Altima

Of course the main thing is cost. No normal anime volume should cost over $19.99 new and speical editions should run around $24.99 depending on what comes in the SE edition.

I've never really bought the 'cost' issue. Compared to what the Japanese fans pay for their dvds (2-4 episodes per disc at about $30-50 per volume), we have it great.

But yeah. Honestly, the anime that I've even been remotely interested in buying, hasn't been licensed... so I don't have a lot to add to this discussion.

[Yvlla]

Originally Posted by Altima

Another thing the article seemed to say is that the quality in the anime world has gone done which means that the Japanese are trying to put out quantity over quality, and it just isn't working.

That just isn't true though. There's more shit now, but there are just as many great shows now as there were before. You just have to look for them.

Originally Posted by Altima

I think if they passed harsh laws across the world about fansubbing animes and all of that, that some groups would stop subbing them and people would be forced to pay to watch them online or buy them in the store once they are released on dvd.

That isn't possible, for obvious reasons. Besides, people in Japan get to watch it without paying absurdly high costs, why the hell shouldn't we be able to as well, just because there are only one or two channels that actually play anime? Viz has the right idea - put the shows online for no cost and let the ads on the website take care of the revenue.

Originally Posted by Altima

When they come to America to be dubbed and what not the companies need to have at least 5 episodes on each volume, special features other than previews, and credits, maybe with some interviews and behind the scenes stuff included on each volume. They should also try to have volumes in the series that are special editions that come with something extra like an action figure like Death Note did.

Alot of that isn't possible for every anime, but if they do try to do it, for fuck's sake try to add subtitles to the behind the scenes interviews. I'd'a been really pissed at Berserk for that if their other extra features weren't bloody fucking brilliant.

[Altima]

Originally Posted by Yviolin

That just isn't true though. There's more shit now, but there are just as many great shows now as there were before. You just have to look for them.

There may be good shows every 3 years, but on a every year or 6 month basis there are hardly many shows that stand out, or don't feel liek we have seen them before, is what the interview was saying.

Originally Posted by Yvl

That isn't possible, for obvious reasons. Besides, people in Japan get to watch it without paying absurdly high costs, why the hell shouldn't we be able to as well

I think they pay more for less in Japan, it isn't cheap for them.

Originally Posted by Yvl

Alot of that isn't possible for every anime, but if they do try to do it, for fuck's sake try to add subtitles to the behind the scenes interviews. I'd'a been really pissed at Berserk for that if their other extra features weren't bloody fucking brilliant.

I want more interviews of both the english and japanese productions or on the scene documentaries where they show the locations that inspired locations in the anime.

[Don Chipotle]

Originally Posted by Altima

There may be good shows every 3 years, but on a every year or 6 month basis there are hardly many shows that stand out, or don't feel liek we have seen them before, is what the interview was saying.

Then you are looking in the wrong places, sir.

[Miles]

Originally Posted by Drooglebugle

Then you are looking in the wrong places, sir.

I have to agree.

It's not that difficult to find an anime that doesn't feel like you've seen it before.

Again. Generally, alot of things have the same structure.
That doesn't make them bad.