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Old 06-22-2013   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
This is where I am, but damn.... I don't want to do that since at any time MS could just reverse their reversal and require always-online and DRM and everything at the drop of a hat (maybe more complicated than I'm thinking but I'm not the one who sowed the seed of doubt--that was them)
Thinking like that, I could say that Sony could implement the tech that they patented to prevent Used Games on their console later down the line.

It's a possibility with both systems.
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Old 06-22-2013   #22
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IT WASN'T RIGHT THE FIRST TIME YOU SAID IT WHY WOULD IT BE RIGHT THE NEXT TEN TIMES?!

Seriously, while MS has shown us a Xbone with all the DRM attached to it that they can switch on and off, Sony has specifically said that the disc-system they were working on (which had nothing to do with used games) was not even considered for the specs of the PS4. They'd have to go way out of their way to include it, and it would have to be a part of the original system, which would cost them money.

Last edited by Yvlla; 06-22-2013 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 06-22-2013   #23
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Old 06-22-2013   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvl View Post
IT WASN'T RIGHT THE FIRST TIME YOU SAID IT WHY WOULD IT BE RIGHT THE NEXT TEN TIMES?!

Seriously, while MS has shown us a Xbone with all the DRM attached to it that they can switch on and off, Sony has specifically said that the disc-system they were working on (which had nothing to do with used games) was not even considered for the specs of the PS4. They'd have to go way out of their way to include it, and it would have to be a part of the original system, which would cost them money.
Don't get all douchey now. This isn't the same thing that I was saying earlier, which was "I WONDER if Sony will do the same thing", and what was before they announced that they weren't.
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Old 06-23-2013   #25
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Yeah, but I had been planning on using that line on you the next time you made a similar claim, and didn't want to miss my chance.
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Old 06-24-2013   #26
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This is true, and is something I've thought about. Sony proved the original specs can be changed via a system update with their removal of OtherOS several years after the PS3 was released.

But as cynical and pessimistic as I've been about MS and the Xbone, I do have a hard time believing they'd actually do this, especially after their reversal on the topic before release. As much as they would probably LOVE to reintroduce DRM via a mandatory (if you want to use online features, that is) system update, I just don't think they'll do it.

Of course, a truly evil one-two punch they could do is to release flawed DRM-free consoles (that are designed to fail within a couple years with something like a RROD), and then release a "revision" a couple of years later including the mandatory DRM update. Or even don't release an update at all, let the old systems be DRM-free, and the new ones (which failures of old ones will force people into buying) will have the DRM.

That latter one is probably more realistic (even without the "built in failure" part of my theory), and would leverage the "goodwill" they've generated by reversing this policy into getting more Xbones sold. Then, when those people have built a game library and are used to the system, release the DRM version as the new exclusive system to buy. When old systems die off, people will be more likely to buy into and accept the DRM because the Xbone is established, and they've sunk money into it beyond the system's price (on games, DLC, XBL, and other things).

I'm not exactly expecting that scenario, as I think MS knows better than to face the PR cataclysm that would unleash upon them, but I do beieve it's very much within their power to do so, and would be surprised if such a plan hasn't already been floated around the higher-ups.
I think what people are missing about console DRM is that for the most part it doesn't make the console company any money directly, so caricatures of Microsoft making these policies in an attempt to squeeze more money out of powerless consumers always ring a little hollow. It's not in Microsoft's interest, necessarily, to "ensure" that these policies get put in place at some point, except that doing so could give them a competitive edge against Sony - namely, by attracting more publishers to its console over the PS4, and making exclusive contracts more appealing.

Which makes this reversal all the stranger to me, really. I find it hard to believe Microsoft would have gone public with a policy as convoluted and badly marketed as this was unless they already had major commitments from publishers in line as a result of it.
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Old 06-24-2013   #27
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Originally Posted by R.C. Cola View Post
Which makes this reversal all the stranger to me, really. I find it hard to believe Microsoft would have gone public with a policy as convoluted and badly marketed as this was unless they already had major commitments from publishers in line as a result of it
Maybe they did, but figured that if Sony doesn't have this mandatory DRM, then MS still won't lose much if they go back on these commitments. Such theoretical commitments are also more reason to suspect that MS may add the DRM back in sometime in the future (whether via update, a console revision, or both); thus fulfilling those commitments while also initially marketing it as DRM-free. Whether they have the balls to (try and) pull it off is another story.

If both major consoles don't have the commitment, what are publishers gonna do? Flock to the console that never publicly announced DRM to "punish" the one that was on board with them (and probably still is, to some capacity)? Of course, if the Xbone ended up suffering as much as it did (and still may), it may be in publisher's best interests to work with Sony, too, since MS probably lost a lot of sales to Sony over the debacle.

Obviously there was a lot of money involved for MS to attempt this, although it could've been a more general attempt at giving themselves ultimate control over the "general media box" they're selling to control people's living rooms and media. With that control comes the potential for plenty of more money from all sorts of avenues. And knowing MS, they probably had ways in place to begin exploiting those avenues.
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Old 06-24-2013   #28
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As for the publishers, when I bought BF3 the first time it came with a physical code for unlocking multiplayer mode so that makes me wonder is they will just do that for the WHOLE game? Something you have to buy at the retailer (if the game is used).

I'm leaning toward them backpedaling like MS, but it's worth thinking about.
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Old 06-26-2013   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.C. Cola View Post
Which makes this reversal all the stranger to me, really. I find it hard to believe Microsoft would have gone public with a policy as convoluted and badly marketed as this was unless they already had major commitments from publishers in line as a result of it.
No doubt, however it's also somewhat apparent that many misread public perception, which can also kill consoles as you just have to look at the Saturn to see what misreading consumers can do as well. Gamers, inherently will cop DRM, they'll gladly sign away various rights they previously had to a point where they then question the need for it, MS & backers simply pushed too hard in that direction which caused that reaction. I mean take the internet becoming standard, it was a "bonus" in the PS2 days, became a method to update and otherwise "fix" last gen as well as facilitate subscription models & multiplayer but this upcoming generation it gets used to brick your console? That's a rather large leap for consumers to swallow and eventually you'll break them and have to fall back.

Quote:
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As for the publishers, when I bought BF3 the first time it came with a physical code for unlocking multiplayer mode so that makes me wonder is they will just do that for the WHOLE game? Something you have to buy at the retailer (if the game is used).

I'm leaning toward them backpedaling like MS, but it's worth thinking about.
It's actually not for mine, it'll happen anyway and has been on the cards for a while.

Consoles, whilst attempting to gravitate towards PC's as entertainment "hubs" need to constrict and otherwise reign in several processes to remain viable, one of these will be mass production and release mediums, to become truly "global" companies they'll cut back on D.O.G (discs on ground) in favour of digital copies, eventually these will contract to subscription (be it episodic or stage related for example) to further cut down on production values which will then retain a digital footprint per console / profile or singular entity to ensure purchase rights, so in all likelihood somewhere down the line we'll end up with HDD installs in the TB's + Cloud storage with connections per hour to external servers to either resolve or validate data and unlocking a game will require several authentication protocols (ie email address, phone text, unlock code + unique personal/console code) in order to play what is deemed an offline / closed single player game.

And it's also why I don't consider myself much of a gamer anymore, I hate where the industry is going as far as mainstream titles are going.
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