The Fall of Manga and Anime.

[Miles]

Originally Posted by Altima

No one but I have to try and set all the idiots and theives in this world right. Stealing is a crime, and my code of honor doesn't allow me to take anything that doesn't belong to me, even if I watch it online from a computer screen.

I won't even begin to tell you how much that just condradicted your entire being.

Originally Posted by Altima

I will say it again. I do everything the 'right' way. I don't steal, I don't lie, I cannot do these things ever as my honor as a man won't allow me to do so. Obviously most the people here are ok with stealing and what not which I have seen plenty of in the past and you all sicken me really. You all are just so stupid to think that none of your actions have led the anime business to the horrible shape that it is in today.

You do. You do and YOU DO.

You've said as much yourself.

You said you'll step on people to get what you want.
You've LIED. You admitted so. You've gone behind someone's back.

You'd ADMITTED all of this to us.

Don't go acting all high and mighty.

Technically you did steal, too. Maybe not an item...But you did steal...

Originally Posted by Altima

I can't see any real fault in the author's words.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5egfl1BL-b8


But yeah. You can't blame other countries stuff going down the pan on downloaders from other countries. If they didn't download it, they wouldn't know that it existed and they wouldn't even know to buy it.
Some of us download AND buy if we like the show. I do...Only most of the anime I download...I can't actually get imported.
Like Mamotte! Lollipop! I have to wait for it to get dubbed and stuff...
Some of us do the whole try and buy...Although alot of us don't >.>

You said you don't care if the anime business goes bust anyways. So why are you still here?
You're complaining about losing something you don't care about o.o
Why moan?

Downloaders do play a part, though.
But again...you do know how bad the economy is...Like all over the world right now...Don't you?

So many thousand people have lost their jobs over here because WE HAVE NO MONEY.
None of us. We're so poor...It's actually gotten to the point where it's funny.
But it's like that in so many places now...Maybe not with losing jobs but so many places are having money issues and the governments solve this problem...By...Upping prices!
So no one can afford to buy anything, so no money goes back into the country and everything gets worse.
I'm not talking food shopping...I mean everything. So it's only natural that anime business is suffering now...Just like EVERY OTHER BUSINESS.

[Yvlla]

Originally Posted by Altima

No one but I have to try and set all the idiots and theives in this world right.

Then you should be taking your anger out on the companies that charge $30 - $50 for an hour of programming, which could instead be spent on games that could last for a week or even a month at the same price. Not rubbing your money in our faces, and teasing us. There are fucking people on EF that are about to lose their homes, how do you think that makes them feel?

Plus, your definition of thievery is "watching TV." You clearly have zero understanding of reality, let alone economics.

Here's how it works. For unlicensed shows: Anime is made in Japan. It's then broadcast on the TV there, and subtitled by someone who desires no money for their service. It is then transmitted on the internet to households in America, who get off scott free because there is no alternative to this distribution.

Or, the licensed shows. Anime is made in Japan. It's picked up by a company whose purpose is to dub and distribute the good in America. The company subsequently fails in both departments, giving us poor voice acting and outrageous prices. People are unwilling to pay the price the company desires in large scales, so they go to the alternative of watching the internet-broadcast Japanese versions of the shows, which are both cheaper and of higher quality. Anime company complains that people are pirating their product, and ignores their own failings, and arrogant pricks complain on the internet about how they're the only ones paying for an unaffordable, low quality product, while sending a signal to the companies that they are doing a good job.

If they wanted to do something other than complain and go bankrupt, there are very clear alternatives.
Mark the price of the anime down to $5 - $10, allowing more people to be able to buy the product, of which the actual production cost of each unit is probably pennies.
Stop giving us low quality products, so that people actually have a reason to buy it.
Stop releasing Fruits Basket and Gundam clones so that the product is actually worth selling.
Set up a way for people to watch the shows online, let the ad revenue pay the cost of licensing and property rights, and get your asses into the 21st century.
Stop dubbing the shows altogether to save money.
If you are going to dub shows, don't give us any more Narutos or Higurashis where your IQ or ear respectively is damaged from hearing the voice actors.
Hire translators, and stop shitting out your scripts and loading them to the breaking point with cliches, Ranma.
Provide something that online subbers can't.

It is not our fault that the producer is fucking up, but rather the fault of those who actually buy the overpiced, low quality DVDs.

And please do give an example of me being a snob, while you're the one bragging about how you spent more money than all of EF has combined on TV shows that last a half hour a piece.

[Miles]

Originally Posted by Yviolin

them to the breaking point with cliches, Ranma.

Dun be mean to Ranma, yo! ;.;

Ranma RULES!

[Yvlla]

Originally Posted by Hollyharp

Dun be mean to Ranma, yo! ;.;

Ranma RULES!

Of course it does. But the dubbing and translation season 1 - 3 was TERRIBLE.

[Altima]

Originally Posted by Bugledroogle

You shouldn't see yourself as being better than anyone, no matter what fucking code of honor you live by.

I will always see myself as being better than theives and liars.

Originally Posted by Droog

Many people prefer spending their cash on things that are essential to life. I had a job for two years and I didn't rush off and spend my cash on anime and video games. It's the classic economic principle of needs versus wants.

You assume that I spend all my cash on games and anime? I'd hate to tell you, but I don't spend all of my money there, I still have 5 figures that just sits in my wallet and there is no decimal point in that figure.

Originally Posted by Holly

You do. You do and YOU DO.

You've said as much yourself.

You said you'll step on people to get what you want.
You've LIED. You admitted so. You've gone behind someone's back.

You'd ADMITTED all of this to us.

Don't go acting all high and mighty.

Technically you did steal, too. Maybe not an item...But you did steal...

I don't remember any of that, and I say a lot of things when i'm angry. I say whatever I can to make the person im saying it to, to feel as horreible as they possibly can. I made my woman want to kill herself once, I said somethings that were so mean and evil. I'm not like that really at all tho, I just say a lot of mean stuff when im in the wrong mood. Like I said tho, those instinces come an go and 98% of the people around me like me all the time, so I must not be doing too bad.

Originally Posted by yvl

Then you should be taking your anger out on the companies that charge $30 - $50 for an hour of programming, which could instead be spent on games that could last for a week or even a month at the same price. Not rubbing your money in our faces, and teasing us. There are fucking people on EF that are about to lose their homes, how do you think that makes them feel?

Oh well, if you lose your house then that is your weight to bare then not mine. Don't cry to me about your situation because thousands never had a house in the first place and they still continue to go on regardless.

Originally Posted by Yvl

Plus, your definition of thievery is "watching TV." You clearly have zero understanding of reality, let alone economics.

You are so stupid, it amazes me sometimes. Watching tv can't be stealing, as you pay the bill for it. Now if you steal your cable, then it is stealing.

Originally Posted by Yvl

Or, the licensed shows. Anime is made in Japan. It's picked up by a company whose purpose is to dub and distribute the good in America. The company subsequently fails in both departments, giving us poor voice acting and outrageous prices.

That is solely your opinion. At least the company that dubs that anime pays to do so in order to distribute the work to a wider audience so that it may get the respect and attention it deserves.

Originally Posted by Yvl

People are unwilling to pay the price the company desires in large scales, so they go to the alternative of watching the internet-broadcast Japanese versions of the shows, which are both cheaper and of higher quality.

Yeah Youtube sure does have some great quality.

Originally Posted by Yvl

Anime company complains that people are pirating their product, and ignores their own failings

Well if so many people want to watch the show they have created then they must have done something right.

Originally Posted by Yvl

and arrogant pricks complain on the internet about how they're the only ones paying for an unaffordable, low quality product, while sending a signal to the companies that they are doing a good job.

Aren't you the arrogant one....Mr Prince? You amuse me my little stupid child. I will see myself as better than you, and I also don't see Droog or Holly as very much my equal. You all seem so stupid to me or just wrong in some ways, that I can't do so. I have my reasons why of course, but I don't feel liek spelling them out.

Originally Posted by Yvl

Mark the price of the anime down to $5 - $10, allowing more people to be able to buy the product, of which the actual production cost of each unit is probably pennies.

OMG I had no idea that your stupidity could amaze me any farther and then I read this. $5-$10 a volume for anime? An anime that is 4 or 5 episodes is at least 1 and a half hours or longer, which is the same length of a full length movie that costs at least $19.99 each so why would they drop their price lower than that?

They want to make money afterall. Even if it did cost maybe $1 to make each dvd, the production, paying of all the workers that made it, voiced it, drew it, etc all had to be paid. If they charged that little there is no way they would maek any money unless they made anime movies and they went to theatres and made $100 million of course.

Originally Posted by Yvl

Stop giving us low quality products, so that people actually have a reason to buy it.

The quality isn't any worse on the volume of anime if you watch in english than if you watch it in japanese. The drawings don't get better just because you read something. Of course im assuming you mean the voice acting, which again is your opinion.

Originally Posted by Yvl

Stop dubbing the shows altogether to save money.

You just get dumber with each line you type. Some people hate to read their shows and instead want to just watch them and hear the words and everything in their native language so they can just focus on the show and not the words at the bottom of the screen. So im afraid that just isn't possible.

Originally Posted by Yvl

And please do give an example of me being a snob,

Oh Prince Yvl, I could never do that, you are always so perfectly polite and modest in everything you do and say.

Originally Posted by Yvl

while you're the one bragging about how you spent more money than all of EF has combined on TV shows that last a half hour a piece.

You get more than a half and hour moron. A 4 volume sanime is usually at least around 112minutes or so as I just watched one. Sometimes you can get 5 or even more episodes per a volume of anime for 2 hours or more of anime on that volume. The proof is in the volumes of Fruits Basket (6,7 episodes each volume), or Ragnarok(9 episodes I think), so that is a lot more than a half hour of entertainment.

Also if that volume has actor and director commentary or other special features then you get more entertainment from that volume of anime.

[Yvlla]

Originally Posted by Altima

Oh well, if you lose your house then that is your weight to bare then not mine. Don't cry to me about your situation because thousands never had a house in the first place and they still continue to go on regardless.

And you don't see anything wrong with rubbing it in their faces (especially when it's their parents, and not them, now fucked up)? You really are the most immoral person I've met.

Altima, I'm bringing your blatant flaming and trolling up with Lades and Fly. Expect administrative action shortly.

Though why you would want to stay at this site after you just proved yourself to be as bad as you were the first day you stepped in puzzles me.

And for the record, I never once was serious with my Prince RP.

[Miles]

Originally Posted by Altima

Well if so many people want to watch the show they have created then they must have done something right.

You didn't read what he said.

When they import a series and then dub it. They sometimes use horrible voice actors and even when you have the option to switch, the subtitles are too bad to read.

You completely took what he said, turned it around and used it to say what you wanted it to say.
You should read more.

You see, when a company import it and dub it...They aren't the creators. If people go else where to watch the shows (In this case, fansubs) then the import company have done everything wrong.
No one wants to watch THEIR show.
They want to watch the original. By it's original creators.

So you're wrong and Yvl is right. Actually.

Originally Posted by Altima

Aren't you the arrogant one....Mr Prince? You amuse me my little stupid child. I will see myself as better than you, and I also don't see Droog or Holly as very much my equal. You all seem so stupid to me or just wrong in some ways, that I can't do so. I have my reasons why of course, but I don't feel liek spelling them out.

Up your smarmy little backside. Shove it.

Although...Your head is so far up their, that I doubt you could fit anything else.

You're the one who's stupid.
You see the world as black and white. The law is black and white, sure but even in this case...Your reviewer said that fansubs fall into the "gray area". Kinda aren't breaking the law here.
I buy anime and Manga. I buy more Manga than anime, that's my business. I do what I can. I buy music, DVD's. You act like I bum off everyone and get all my stuff illegally.
I do my stuff very legally, thank you very much.

You can't even read properly.

LOOK:

while you're the one bragging about how you spent more money than all of EF has combined on TV shows that last a half hour a piece.

Yvl.

Originally Posted by Altima

You get more than a half and hour moron. A 4 volume sanime is usually at least around 112minutes or so as I just watched one. Sometimes you can get 5 or even more episodes per a volume of anime for 2 hours or more of anime on that volume. The proof is in the volumes of Fruits Basket (6,7 episodes each volume), or Ragnarok(9 episodes I think), so that is a lot more than a half hour of entertainment.

You.

You = BAKA!

Yvl said shows that last half an hour a piece.
As in the anime episode itself. Not the entire DVD.

You're the moron. Yvl was right...AGAIN and you were WRONG. Again....And again...

You've just proved to all of us, that you're not here for the sake of the topic but simply for the sake of an argument.

You already said you don't care about anime.
You really have no need to keep arguing.

But yeah. Your last post just proved to every last one of us...That you aren't paying any attention to our posts.
Which means you're here for the drama.

I have no idea why you had to say all that stuff about equals.
It had no need to be said.
In fact, I would call that baiting someone into a fight...

Isn't that...Against the rules?

Anyways. If Anime died out in our countries...Would that then make...Fansubs perfectly legal?...
There's no way Anime is going to die out in Japan. I thought their downloading laws were stricter than ours.

Oh!

Originally Posted by THE Cap'n Rogers!

Plus, I'd really love to see you pick the dubbed version of Higurashi over the subbed. I've got the second highest threshold for cute on this site, and even I couldn't stand Rena's voice.

I just checked it out...

....Um....

the voice actors don't even sound like they care...

And Rena's voice isn't even a little cute...She just sounds annoying *Twitches* Very...Annoying...

[Setzophone]

Originally Posted by Altima

Yeah Youtube sure does have some great quality.

http://www.crunchyroll.com/

Try again, sir. This time with less ass.

[Don Chipotle]

Originally Posted by Altima

I will always see myself as being better than theives and liars.

And I will always see myself better than someone who takes pride in the fact that he can and will often be an asshole to people.

See, it works both ways.

You assume that I spend all my cash on games and anime? I'd hate to tell you, but I don't spend all of my money there, I still have 5 figures that just sits in my wallet and there is no decimal point in that figure.

There's no reason for anyone to ever carry 10000 dollars in their wallet. Ever. That's just asking to be robbed. And credit cards don't count. Are you trying to impress us with this 'fact'? Shit, man, I aint got nothin' less than a Benjamin in my wallet, son.

I don't remember any of that, and I say a lot of things when i'm angry. I say whatever I can to make the person im saying it to, to feel as horreible as they possibly can. I made my woman want to kill herself once, I said somethings that were so mean and evil. I'm not like that really at all tho, I just say a lot of mean stuff when im in the wrong mood. Like I said tho, those instinces come an go and 98% of the people around me like me all the time, so I must not be doing too bad.

You have said everything Holly accused you of. But wait, that creates a paradox in your 'I am better than liars' thing. And what kind of person is proud of making a woman contemplate suicide. You do know that, if she did go through with it you could've been charged.

And I consider mysel better than someone who drives someone else to kill themselves because they are 'angry'.

And, FYI, people like me too, it's not exactly something special. It helps not to be condescending to them.

You are so stupid, it amazes me sometimes. Watching tv can't be stealing, as you pay the bill for it. Now if you steal your cable, then it is stealing.

Here's what Yvl was saying.





Here's your head.

Yeah Youtube sure does have some great quality.

Anyone who watches anime on YouTube deserves the quality. Try MegaUpload.

Well if so many people want to watch the show they have created then they must have done something right.

You'd be surprised how false that statement is.

Aren't you the arrogant one....Mr Prince? You amuse me my little stupid child. I will see myself as better than you, and I also don't see Droog or Holly as very much my equal. You all seem so stupid to me or just wrong in some ways, that I can't do so. I have my reasons why of course, but I don't feel liek spelling them out.

Well fuck you too, buddy!

OMG I had no idea that your stupidity could amaze me any farther and then I read this. $5-$10 a volume for anime? An anime that is 4 or 5 episodes is at least 1 and a half hours or longer, which is the same length of a full length movie that costs at least $19.99 each so why would they drop their price lower than that?

With a lower price people would be more apt to purchase more than one volume. It's economics. It's the equivalent of someone going through sales ads to find the lowest possible price, even if it's only a few cents. It's appealing to the consumer, the target audience. Typical anime fans aren't rolling with five digit amounts of cash in their wallets.

They want to make money afterall. Even if it did cost maybe $1 to make each dvd, the production, paying of all the workers that made it, voiced it, drew it, etc all had to be paid. If they charged that little there is no way they would maek any money unless they made anime movies and they went to theatres and made $100 million of course.

Anime volume sales do not make up the core of a company's revenue stream. It may account for some percent, but there are so many other factors to consider.

You just get dumber with each line you type. Some people hate to read their shows and instead want to just watch them and hear the words and everything in their native language so they can just focus on the show and not the words at the bottom of the screen. So im afraid that just isn't possible.

Isn't possible? Japanese movies have been doing it for YEARS. Foreign films have been doing it YEARS. Sit back from the television. Look at the screen. See how you can see the whole screen? It's not hard to focus on both the text and the picture. If someone is constantly moving their head up and down while watching they are going to have neck problems.

You get more than a half and hour moron. A 4 volume sanime is usually at least around 112minutes or so as I just watched one. Sometimes you can get 5 or even more episodes per a volume of anime for 2 hours or more of anime on that volume. The proof is in the volumes of Fruits Basket (6,7 episodes each volume), or Ragnarok(9 episodes I think), so that is a lot more than a half hour of entertainment.

You get, taking out opening and closing, around 25 minutes of actual anime per episode. He wasn't talking as a whole. He was talking individual episodes.

Also if that volume has actor and director commentary or other special features then you get more entertainment from that volume of anime.

You know how many DVDs have commentary? Not a whole lot. Grenadier had commentary on one or two episodes, but it was dull. Cowboy Bebop Remix has commetary on episodes, but you can only stand two people talk in the same monotonus voice for so long. People don't buy anime for commentary, which is why you don't find it in many DVDs. Most special features amount to textless openings and closings with some trailers. Guess what, I can see that shit without shelling out $20 for 90 minutes or so of anime I've probably already seen.


And by the way, Altima, I'm getting fucking sick of you calling me a loli fan. It wasn't true back when I first had my Gunslinger Girl sig. It's not true now. With the others I know it's a joke. With you, who the fuck cares.

[Chicken Little]

Alright ladies, untwist those panties and use some of that noggin above your shoulders.

Loss of revenue does not auto equate to thievery or lies, supply and demand principles apply here, attacking anyone (note singular) because of this just shows how mentally retarded you in fact are on the subject, newsflash, world economy is in the shit, retail trusts are going to experience lower income buffers and some will be made redundant, this is not because individual group A decided to pirate and then lie about shit.

Altima, 5 words;

Get the fuck over yourself.

If you want this thread closed and gone simply say the word and it'll be gone, but if you think this is your pissing ground to promote your ego baggage over everyone else then you are sadly and sorely mistaken.

So here's how this is going to work.

Argument thread gets closed while I remove said posts and export them to the gates so you can all run around baiting and cursing each other in there, thread will then be re opened on a ZT and anyone even thinking of continuing it gets warned and their post deleted no questions asked, you whinge about that another warning and so on so forth until those who want to be here to actually populate the ideolgies with discussion remain and those who want to be arrogant little e-heroes can piss off to ytmnd or something.