McCain - Palin

[Rainbow Dash]

Signs are pointing to McCain shooting himself in the foot with Pawlenti sometime tomorrow. I was half hoping he would go with Ridge or Lieberman to reassure his supporters that he IS a maverick, but I guess abortion is just too damn important these days for someone to make a rational pick, or maybe McCain is indeed as I have said lost forever to his new shitty image. There was also Romney, which I still am having a hard time finding faults with aside from his religion, which McCain should know that Obama will not criticize.

I really just pity the guy now.

[Applejack]

It's all about the awesome name. Pawlenti rolls off the tongue.

[Night]

I respectfully disagree, Droog, the "w" makes Pawlenti look silly and childish. Terrorists would eat Pawlenti alive.

I highly douby McCain will pick Mitt Romney. Look at how much he's changed just to appeal to christian conservatives, I don't think he went through all that trouble just to pick a Mormon.

[Rainbow Dash]

Still, Romney is the local economy expert of the bunch, and with McCain admitting that he isn't up to speed on the economy, it SHOULD have been his only choice.

But if he wants to demonstrate more and more to the American public that he's just a puppet of the Republican party and Bush, it's his loss.

[Rainbow Dash]

Dark horse is dark.

And I couldn't be more disgusted. He picked a woman, Sarah Palin, a 44 year old governor. But I'm am disgusted that he would try to take advantage of sexism to try to put himself in the white house. Though I will admit that her record is damn impressive (aside from the using her beauty to get her through college rather than working for it) her strengths all would come at a time that America ISN'T in a load of shit. I don't see anything about her being able to manage economy, for example.

[Applejack]

At least she doesn't plaster on the makeup like a trollop.

[Rainbow Dash]

She wasn't second in the Miss Alaska pageant for nothing. That's where she got her scholaship from - not by working for it, but because she looked pretty.

That's really the harshest criticism I can give of her though. I'd MUCH rather her than McCain. I do have an issue with when and how she was picked, but that's nothing against her and everythign against how desperate McCain is.

[Kurbee]

This is either going to break it or make it for McCain.

[The Deity]

I'm not really satisfied with her experience level, much like Obama's. I would have liked Lieberman a lot as his choice, but I understand the need to appeal to the evangelic guard for McCain. That said, I'm not happy with his choice to do so.

[Raist No. 2]

Obama picks the running mate that best increases his electability and he's a genius; McCain does it and he's despicable. Color me unsurprised.

Dark horse is dark.She was at the top of my guess list for a couple weeks now.

I don't see anything about her being able to manage economy, for example.I want you to really think about this statement for a minute.

[Lancet Jades]

Obama picks the running mate that best increases his electability and he's a genius; McCain does it and he's despicable. Color me unsurprised.

She was at the top of my guess list for a couple weeks now.

I want you to really think about this statement for a minute.
Now now, Raist, we both know that Obama is a genius and McCain is despicable for one reason. Obama's choice appeals to the RIGHT people, McCain's appeals to the WRONG people. Silly that someone like you would fail to pick up on that.

[Chicken Little]

She wasn't second in the Miss Alaska pageant for nothing. That's where she got her scholaship from - not by working for it, but because she looked pretty.

No industry for models at all is there? No money to be made through said industry is there? French presidents wife isn't a former one is she? Different to fooseball because she doesn't have a ball somewhere around her groin area? or can run? Kick? get an ass whoopin?

Yes I can see "looking pretty" being the only useless freeloading scholarship that American education gives out.

Outside of this, get your own damn ideas McCain you old coot! Australian federal Labor government have a deputy PM who's a woman, Governor General who's a woman and the now opposition decided to follow suit with a deputy female basically a year ago.

Senile yank! *grumbles some more about stupid things*

[Rainbow Dash]

Obama picks the running mate that best increases his electability and he's a genius; McCain does it and he's despicable. Color me unsurprised.
I appreciate his decision overall, but it really seemed like he was just picking a woman just for the sake of picking a woman. Then his camp starts making claims about how this is proof he's the candidate of change; as if gender or race alone will change how Washington works.

She DOES have a good record though, and seems to stand for McCain's definition of change (no pork barrel spending, everything else is AOK) even if I don't agree with it. In fact, I would prefer her 100% over McCain, and would pick her in a less crucial election hands down (unless she was running against Obama or someone else that shared my policies as well as my values.) However, even if McCain is all but fated to leave office early or often, the damage he would do foreign policy-wise is irreparable.

I'm getting off topic. My point is that while I do not approve of his ulterior motives, I do overall approve of this choice.

Lastly, fuck pumas.

[Lancet Jades]

but it really seemed like

So, there's no way he could pick a woman without it being "sexist" like you previously claimed?

[Rainbow Dash]

So, there's no way he could pick a woman without it being "sexist" like you previously claimed?
I didn't say it was sexist, I said it was taking advantage of sexism. I see what you're saying though.

Either way, I want to know what her foreign policy positions are. Raist, do you have any info on this? Or a reliable, non-wikipedia website that has this kind of info?

[Raist No. 2]

I appreciate his decision overall, but it really seemed like he was just picking a woman just for the sake of picking a woman.It's a little more complicated than that, but of course he did. VP has always been a throwaway slot, never used the way it's intended and used instead for the sole purpose of getting more points in the general. That's why you see them getting picked just because they're from a battleground state, or just because they bring something to the campaign trail that the candidate can't, or just because they "strengthen a candidate's weaknesses" while everyone politely ignores that that's the Cabinet's job and doesn't really mean anything in a veep. It's always been about selling an image, and just because McCain's "best option" makes it more obvious that it's about image doesn't mean his reasons for picking Palin and Obama's reasons for picking Biden aren't cut from the same cloth.

Either way, I want to know what her foreign policy positions are. Raist, do you have any info on this? Or a reliable, non-wikipedia website that has this kind of info?Haha, "her foreign policy positions." That's a good one, you should use it at parties.

[Rainbow Dash]

My belief on the VP position is that it's an indicator of what kind of people the president will appoint to the cabinet.

Haha, "her foreign policy positions." That's a good one, you should use it at parties.
I do. And that's what I thought.

[Rainbow Dash]

I do overall approve of this choice.

Silly me, I was under the impression she'd be campaigning using her credentials, not throwing feminism all over the place. I'm going to have to withdraw this statement unless she starts coming up with substance other than her tits.

Her record looked good at first glance, but I'm noticing more and more that she hasn't even shown an interest in national affairs until now. This girl is an airhead.

[Night]

I love how she states (to Hillary supporters) that she's going to break the glass cieling that Hillary failed to break. Ignoring completely that she's been chosen to be #2 as opposed to running for #1.

It's clever, McCain has been trying to grab up all the Hillary supporters he can since the Biden nomination, but I don't think it'll work too well.

[Rainbow Dash]

I've heard some feminists that aren't buying it. This move is just a bit too obvious even for them.

[Dark Luther]

Yvl, your a jackass...
What you said earlier is exactly the stuff you were being critical at others for being with Obama.
You conclusions are with little knowledge of the people you speak of, and extremly biased and bigotted.
You sir are exactly what I would consider a hypocrit...

Romney would have been a horrible choice - but you don't know a lot of the problems with that so you disregard their existance.
Romney is horrible with staying on message - being seen as worse that Kerry by his own party.
He is extremly liberal according to most Republicans and is not generally liked.
His religion is a great crutch, and he has gone out of his way to seem even more out there.
Romney is also a slanderer, and a dirty player -
and most important of all...
McCain HATES HIM...
He does - he dislikes the man, plain and true...
So don't go out of your field and just say he was the only clear choice...


Then towards McCain's pick for vice...
What do you know of the woman...?
What do you know of her to critic her and say she only got were she is because of her looks,
or that McCain only picked her because she's a woman.
The truth is good sir your not a Republican - nor a conservative...
And her name is Sarah Palin - the person you guys are talking about is the governor of Minnesota...

Look, you can talk about being disgusted and disgraced..., but what proof or reason do you have...
How is your argument differant than that the Democrats chose a charismatic Black guy with no expirience...
Could it not be possible for McCain to have picked the woman because -
A. She young and draws away from his age
B. Was one of the few republicans who supported McCain in many of his policies a few years back
C. Was one of the few Republicans a few years back who backed McCain in his critic of Bush
D. Is considered one of the few Republicans who are very conservative - but not neo-conservative
E. Has a great record with anti pork-barrel, which is the core thing with McCain - and particularly with conservatives who had problems with the Bush administration
F. Is relatively safe - as most other candidates have something in their record that will piss someone off
G. Has a history of cooperation across party lines, and is generally liked in the general public
H. Has been known over the last few years as a very charismatic politician - similar to Obama

Yeah, she's quite pretty and a woman...
and she's said some remarks towards that end...
Duh, republicans hate Hillary - of course she'll comment on that note...
Hell, a lot of Democrats hate Hillary...



You know what - Liberals and critics can go ahead and talk shit...
The truth is you guys knew nothing about this candidate until she was mentioned...
I've followed her in the news for a few years now - she's a good choice in my opinion...
Anyone can scream sexism - it's another thing to prove it...

Excuse me for going off the handle as I do here sometimes...
I hate double standards though...

[Rainbow Dash]

I've checked up on her records, so I probably know about as much as you do about her. It's an endless string of ethics reforms, and no meat. Then her comments about "We're going to break the glass ceiling Hillary didn't" make it clear that the rhetoric won't be about what she can do when she has to step in for McCain, but about the fact that there are people still pissed off about Hillary and McCain wants them to vote for him.

And please don't assume that experience is a measure of time. Yes Obama and Palin have been in office for about as long, but Obama offers a very clear position and solution to many of our problems. Palin hasn't even shown that she has even thought about things like foreign policy.

And lastly, this isn't a double standard. If you make your or your opponent's gender an issue, it's sexism. Women aren't a protected class in this case.

[Dark Luther]

Your relying on semantics in that last one...

And of course she hasn't brought out any ground breaking reforms that Obama has made

A. She's only been in the race a matter of days...
B. She's going for Vice President, not President...
C. She's conservative..., didn't your teacher ever tell you what conservatives are - and I don't mean the negative anti Bush neocon stuff - I mean the simple answer...


Her record is limited by what she's thrown out there on her own - she is an early member of the party.
Her role is not to throw out big ground breaking stuff - she does have a history of supporting and helping elders who were involved in such things though.

Also - you can't use that as a point - Obama himself barely passed much of what you'd consider "meat"...

And finally - she's a Governor - she's an executive leader - not someone who passes laws and bills...
Her main pro is she was able to manage two sides of her party so well in a very conservative state.
She was also able to cut Pork Barrel in a state made up on it...


and yes - she said she'd break the ceiling where Hillary couldn't...
what's that supposed to prove...?
If you forget - Hillary herself often mentioned how if and when she won she'd be the first woman president...
Hillary made it a campaign hook,
Palin just used it as a slam at her...

Not everyone is super non corrupt and sticking to the issues as Obama.
Obama has yet to point out he's black, but it doesn't matter as much because everyone else is...
Still I applaud Obama, as I believe him to be the cleanest and most respectable candidate I've ever seen.
McCain was once one - but he's changed some over the years...

...but don't take it out on Palin just for a stupid quote that really wasn't anything bad...
Cause then your sounding like every Neo-Con who started crap about what his wife said, or fist pounding, or all that crap...

[Rainbow Dash]

Did you see me like it any more when Hillary did it? But then, even she didn't specifically say it in such clear terms, and she had some substance to her arguments.

I don't think I made this clear, so let me rephrase it - if she comes out with some substance, then I'll be all for her, but until she starts talking about what her positions are if she needs to replace McCain and stops talking about her titties, she's just there as a campaign ad at this point.

[Dark Luther]

Oh, so when a new candidate comes out - until she proves herself, you'll slander her, insult her, and make presumptions of her...
Quite mature - not like a Neo-Con at all...

And since when is she talking about her titties...( god, it's like arguing with a kid )...
She had breast implant - and there was a controversy because it was dangerous but beneficial for her baby, because she breast fed.

Taking one issue and skewing it...
Sir - you at the moment are worst than a Republican...
My critic is not on the issue of Hillary or her - it is that you are doing what you have complained others of doing to Obama for quite some time now...

You take away credential and offer excuse for another to do the same to another candidate...

In the end, she's a vice president - who has been out a matter of days...
What substance has Obama's candidate come out with...?
For that matter - why hasn't that been brought up or discussed...?
He's been out for longer...

Again - a double standard...

[Rainbow Dash]

And since when is she talking about her titties...( god, it's like arguing with a kid )...
She had breast implant - and there was a controversy because it was dangerous but beneficial for her baby, because she breast fed.

I didn't even know that - that's terrible! And you're being overly critical. I may be a bit too harsh on her right now, but so far she has proven me right in my initial assumption that she's going to be running as a female candidate. I'll agree to back off on her for now, but she'd better keep away from the feminism - it won't be relieved well, by voters including myself. However, just to make something perfectly clear, competence is not measured by time. There is such thing as prodigy, even halfway through life, but not everyone has it.

[Raist No. 2]

And her name is Sarah Palin - the person you guys are talking about is the governor of Minnesota...The thread was initially about Yvl thinking they were going with Pawlenty, then when McCain actually made his choice Yvl changed the title of the thread but kept everything else intact. It's a little confusing if you didn't see it happen.

And finally - she's a Governor - she's an executive leader - not someone who passes laws and bills...I do find it ironic that, with all this talk of her inexperience, she seems to have more in managing an executive than the other three do combined.

But then, even she didn't specifically say it in such clear termsYes she did.

I'll agree to back off on her for now, but she'd better keep away from the feminism - it won't be relieved well, by voters including myself.For a guy that makes so much ado about the ends justifying the means...

And you say that like you were ever contemplating voting for McCain in the first place.

[Rainbow Dash]

For a guy that makes so much ado about the ends justifying the means...
Ignore that whole conversation, please. I don't know how I think about that issue.

And you say that like you were ever contemplating voting for McCain in the first place.
I originally said "Voters and myself" but I'm voting too. Probably could have worded it better.

EDIT: Looked into her a bit more, and found a key bit I passed over. She doesn't believe in Global Warming, which I consider my litmus test on whether a politician is rational or not. I doubt she'll be redeeming herself no matter how much she avoids the issue of feminism.

[Night]

Ignore that whole conversation, please. I don't know how I think about that issue.Your style of debate never ceases to amaze me.

Luther, while you have some strong points, let's not pretend that she was nominated for anything other than drawing Hillary Clinton supporters to the republican party. She was a surprise pick who came out just a few days after the "the democrats have abandoned you Hillary supporters" McCain ad. There's no doubt in my mind that the McCain campaign essentially googled "conservative vagina McCain veep"

[Rainbow Dash]

Your style of debate never ceases to amaze me.
This was something in an IM convo, you probably dont get the context.

[Dark Luther]

Well of course...
She was simply a good candidate that was a woman...
The Republicans though - we need a good candidate that can draw votes - she fit perfectly.
The woman thing may be the largest single point - but she already had many minor points that made her perfect for McCain.
Frankly, I had been thinking senator Olympia - a good strong republican woman who's older like McCain, plus her family is from Sparta..., but more than anything she has loads of expirience...

But the truth is - which is not to say we must end the conclusion there -
Obama has greatly been propelled by his race - particularly in states like the Carolinas...
Is he doing this well cause he's black - NO...
I have an alternate theory based on Southern people I know, and a very good proffessor I studied under -
Southern people are attracted to charismatic talkers...
The main thisn Obama has going for him is he's Kennedy like...
Charismatic, great talker, and has revolutionary changes in store...
plus he's running the cleanest campaign I've ever seen...


But what does it matter if Palin points out she's a woman...
Just cause you don't like it doesn't mean it's a low move Yvl....


And finally Yvl - we're not arguing over your heart and soul of the matter...
I could give three shits if you don't like the candidate over one of her issues...
the argument is over you being hypocritical by doing to her what others do to Obama...,
and also defending her position as she's barely had a chance to prove herself...

And competence is measured by time....
I think I'm pretty sure of that - I've trained people to do military drill, martial arts, sword fighting, cooking, hiking, and several other things..., I'm quite sure on this...
Yes - you see a lot at first - I went through the officer stuff, and saw a lot of people who could never cut leadership.
But I've been surprised enough to know not to make assumptions. Anyway - she has neither show incompetence or major flaw.

And Global Warming is sketchy - not the issue, but the belief...
one can still believe in enviromental issues and have specific doubts about global warming...

Anyway - there's dozens of democrats who don't believe it either...
I'd prefer if they did, but I'm not going to chastise them for it...

[Rainbow Dash]

the argument is over you being hypocritical by doing to her what others do to Obama...,
The argument agaisnt Obama is that he has no experience. My argument against Palin is that she has no knowledge whatsoever. I don't see the two as going hand in hand. For example, say that like me, Obama spent hours a day in his youth keeping up with politics, while Palin started paying attention to global politics after getting elected as governor. Yes, they have the same amount of experience in public office, and it would be hypocritical to criticize her over obama based on that alone, but Obama would have knowledge and skills acquired from 30 years of keeping track of the news, debating, and helping out the community. That's my basic argument, reworded.

And Global Warming is sketchy - not the issue, but the belief...
one can still believe in enviromental issues and have specific doubts about global warming...
Put up with the rest of her record, which appears to be 110% conservative, it's a bad sign.

[Mina]

This woman is useless. Who the fuck cares about Alaska anyway? I cant remember hearing about anything influential that state has done. She also seems like an uptight, biblehumping, conservative.
Obama sounds intelligent to me and I think McCain is a nasty Bush number 2. McCain is old as fuck and could die, leaving her president. From watching news and such, Id much rather Obama(im against mccain regardless) than some woman. I dont think your average american woman, nor someone such as herself could run this country. Sexist? yeah. Women ARE brought up a certain way in American society, however. FACT: I couldnt stand Hilary.

[Applejack]

This woman is useless. Who the fuck cares about Alaska anyway? I cant remember hearing about anything influential that state has done.

Alaska is a beautiful state. I'd say it's one of the more beautiful states I've been too. But you can't discount a person based on where they are from.

McCain is old as fuck and could die, leaving her president.

Reagan was 'old as fuck' when he was elected and he lived. He even survived an assassination attempt. Age is a poor excuse. Younger people aren't immune from sudden bouts of bad health either.

From watching news and such, Id much rather Obama(im against mccain regardless) than some woman. I dont think your average american woman, nor someone such as herself could run this country. Sexist? yeah. Women ARE brought up a certain way in American society, however. FACT: I couldnt stand Hilary.


You're assuming McCain will die and Palin will become the President. You're counting chickens. A woman most likely could run the country. It would just take the right woman.

[Night]

The argument agaisnt Obama is that he has no experience. My argument against Palin is that she has no knowledge whatsoever. I don't see the two as going hand in hand. For example, say that like me, Obama spent hours a day in his youth keeping up with politics, while Palin started paying attention to global politics after getting elected as governor. Yes, they have the same amount of experience in public office, and it would be hypocritical to criticize her over obama based on that alone, but Obama would have knowledge and skills acquired from 30 years of keeping track of the news, debating, and helping out the community. That's my basic argument, reworded.Well, Luther, Yvl has a strong point here. She's been quoted as saying that she doesn't even know what exactly it is that a VP does.

Reagan was 'old as fuck' when he was elected and he lived. He even survived an assassination attempt. Age is a poor excuse. Younger people aren't immune from sudden bouts of bad health either.Yes, young people die, but that's like saying "Hey, I'm gonna go swim with my legs encased in concrete", and when I tell you it's stupid, you saying "yeah, but people have drowned without the concrete"

[Mina]

Alaska is a beautiful state. I'd say it's one of the more beautiful states I've been too. But you can't discount a person based on where they are from.

That statment was more or less a joke.
As far as McCain being old, again more joking manner. I also just dont like him.

The right woman: yes.
Though Hillary sure wasn't if you ask me, nor this Palin.

[Rainbow Dash]

Mommy for president 2024? (Yes, I do still remember you as that :P To others wondering what the fuck, it was an RP back in EQ2.)

I really don't mind the fact that she's a woman, although women are indeed born and raised differently mentally, but the fact that she was only chosen because she's a woman is, as I said, sickening, and I honestly have yet to come across someone who approves of this decision aside from guys joking about her being a MILF. This comes from watching news stations, participating in discussions elsewhere, and my parents' own discussions with people in the community (my mother insists that it's the women who are the MOST pissed off, actually.)

As for Hillary, she was damn close to being competent, but I hated the way she conducted herself, and the division she stood for (her husband was a hell of a champion of the Permanent Campaign, which Scott McClellan insists is what brought down the Bush Presidency.)

It's getting awesome watching the news, especially CNN, with her around to defend, actually. McCain pulled an interview off the air after this debacle. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qCL3G4DZSc) They claimed that Campbell Brown was asking him unfair questions and was being biased. Do any of you see that? Either way, does the McCain camp REALLY want to make an enemy out of CNN?

Then earlier today, in the Situation Room, they were asking Rudy Guilliani the same questions, and running circles around him. He tried to stall at one point, and when asked what foreign policy experience she had... I can't remember the exact quote and can't find it on youtube, but stalled and said that she was there to balance the ticket and that they cover each others' weakness, McCain is strong with foreign policy, Palin is strong with Domestic policy. It took me about 10 minutes for me to realize what the high profile republican had implied - that McCain is weak on domestic policy.

Good times.

[Dark Luther]

Ok Yvl - so your point is that Obama is a good candidate cause he kept up with the news...?
Is this really about competence, or do you really just think a woman who went to a beauty pagent is just dumb and couldn't follow politics either.

Yes - Obama is quite intelligent, and quite versed in international relations - it's his main area actually.
He has no executive experience - and even his international perspective is limited in scope.

Palin isn't particular to international statutes - she's from Alaska - but she does hold executive expirience that Obama does not have.
She is also well expirienced in local and national matters - specificly with anti corruption;
I particularly applaud her in her reversal of her previous Alaska governor - also a Republican.
She is quite versed in transportation, and is noted as good in administrating education - as opposed to the crap with Bush.
She's shown to be pretty good at dealing with her state's budget too -
often having made hard decisions with a backlash for the better of her state,
like dealing with the "bridge to nowhere" scandal...

Look, I'm an Obama supporter...
I also respected McCain in the past...
But this candidate has her merit - and your critic is often unfounded...


Really - the worst you've said of her - is she's too conservative...
Wow, what a shock from the Republican VP...


You know, I've been following politics and international relations for some time now - and there's stuff Obama simply doesn't know...
Also - who the hell knows everything that the VP does anyway - I know I don't..., and that's my fraking major...


And you still don't fucking stop...
You have no merit in stating she was chosen only for her sex - other than personal perspective...
You sound just like a freaking Republican - demeaning another candidate with something so insulting - then going off yourself and saying it's sickening...

What if someone said the same thing of Obama?
That it's sickening that the democrats put him up only because he's black and that would garner a lot of votes...?

And for your information - I support her..., I think she's a damn good candidate...
and sorry the majority of people think she's a MILF...
Many in my city refer to Obama as "ese negro"...


Sorry you guys see it that way - because frankly, you guys have not given her a chance...
she's been out for a matter of days...
jeez...

[Rainbow Dash]

You know, I've been following politics and international relations for some time now - and there's stuff Obama simply doesn't know...
No question about that, honestly. But while Obama shows signs that he's at least been paying attention for quite some time, here's someone who shows signs that she hasn't even considered anything outside of Alaska that can't hold up to McCain's own standards.

Also - who the hell knows everything that the VP does anyway - I know I don't..., and that's my fraking major...
The VP is the head of the senate, and can step in when the president is unable to perform. That's it, and that's why alot of people see the VP spot as a throwaway spot, and it usually is, except in this one instance, when there is a concern about McCain's health, what with the skin cancer and all. It is also the first executive decision that the candidate makes, giving us a preview of the kind of presidency he's going to have, and the cabinet he's going to appoint.

I do understand why people wouldnt know what the VP does, it's so little that people tend to think, "There's gotta be more!" when there isn't.

You have no merit in stating she was chosen only for her sex - other than personal perspective...
I believe I have every merit for saying that, and I believe that the future will prove me right.

What if someone said the same thing of Obama?
That it's sickening that the democrats put him up only because he's black and that would garner a lot of votes...?
Obama was elected through a democratic process. Palin was a snap decision made at the last second by McCain (Or so it seems, it is up for debate. He spent 3 weeks vetting Lieberman, and I think 3 days on Palin.)

[Raist No. 2]

Ignore that whole conversation, please. I don't know how I think about that issue.How you think about the issue doesn't change why the issue came up in the first place, so you should either get an opinion and stick to it honestly or stop applying a double standard by criticizing someone for doing something you don't have an opinion on.

Luther, while you have some strong points, let's not pretend that she was nominated for anything other than drawing Hillary Clinton supporters to the republican party. She was a surprise pick who came out just a few days after the "the democrats have abandoned you Hillary supporters" McCain ad. There's no doubt in my mind that the McCain campaign essentially googled "conservative vagina McCain veep"While it's looking like that's possible, I don't really understand why it would be like that. Like I said, she was at the top of my guess list for weeks because she's exactly what McCain needed, for all of the reasons Luther stated, not just because she's a woman.

Well, Luther, Yvl has a strong point here. She's been quoted as saying that she doesn't even know what exactly it is that a VP does.Quoting someone else here 'cause I'm lazy:
Beyond presiding over the Senate, casting tiebreaking votes when needed, and assuming the presidency should the situation arise, what the Vice Presidency does depends on what the President wants him (or her) to do. Some vice presidents (Dick Cheney, for instance) are granted lots of authority and responsibility within their administration, while others (such as Spiro Agnew) are kept as far away from anything as is possible.

The context given in her words after what you quoted suggests that Palin would not be interested in accepting the vice presidency if it meant being a nonentity.I saw the interview a couple weeks ago and that last part is pretty much what I got out of it at the time.

For example, say that like me, Obama spent hours a day in his youth keeping up with politics....

That's just too easy.

...while Palin started paying attention to global politics after getting elected as governor. Yes, they have the same amount of experience in public office, and it would be hypocritical to criticize her over obama based on that alone, but Obama would have knowledge and skills acquired from 30 years of keeping track of the news, debating, and helping out the community.Whereas Palin would have knowledge and skills acquired from actual executive experience, which nobody else on either ticket can claim. Obama's had half a decade to plan for this and he's still acting like he's running for Senator, not President.

Either way, does the McCain camp REALLY want to make an enemy out of CNN?...

No really, stop making this so damn easy.

It took me about 10 minutes for me to realize what the high profile republican had implied - that McCain is weak on domestic policy.And Obama's Biden pick shores up his lack of foreign policy experience. This isn't a new concept.

giving us a preview of... the cabinet he's going to appoint.It really doesn't, though. The veep is only appointed to garner votes, the Cabinet isn't appointed until after that becomes a moot point, so assuming a direct correlation between the two is premature at best.

[Rainbow Dash]

And Obama's Biden pick shores up his lack of foreign policy experience. This isn't a new concept.
I know that - the problem here is that Rudy Giuliani, one of McCain's strongest supporters, admitted that McCain has domestic problems, which is something the McCain camp has been going through great lengths to eliminate the notion of.

[Dark Luther]

Yvl, you stated nothing with that last message...
Actually - you've been stating more and more critic - but have yet to address the points I have made, along with the evidence I placed that Palin has merit on her own - outside of saying it's not enough from your opinion.

Just like raist said, there are several reasons why Palin could have been elected - despite being a woman, but you have yet to address them. Instead you go and insult the decision in a very elitest form that rivals the worse said about Obama...


And there is a lot more that the VP does...
I guess you haven't followed politics enough to know that...
They cast the tie breaking vote for congress, they are also used to serve as a semi-embassador and spokesmen both domesticly and internationally...
As raist said - they may also be given more power depending on the President...

She hasn't shown badly though, as she's had a great anti corrpution record, good financial experience, good record on education, and pretty good at dealing with infrustructure and transportation.
Of course she didn't deal much with internatonal things - she's president of Alaska...
She did her job well cause she focused on her job...
In Florida - we criticized Jeb Bush for making so many international flights and flying away from Florida to washington so many times..., he then stayed in Florida and focused on domestics, like a good governor...


So,
address her executive expirience.
address her good domestic record.
address her clean anti corruption / pork barrel record.

and don't say how she's just picked cause she's a woman...
or talk about her tits, or her youth social life..., or what people around you are saying..., or how you don't like her cause she's republican and conservative ( as she's a rep VP ) or her stance on so many of those issues that are conservative.

I know quite well you are against those issues...
I don't have drug dealers coming to me saying they hate cops - I can figure it out myself...
So I defenitely don't need a liberal telling me they don't like conservative issues and stances...

[Rainbow Dash]

And there is a lot more that the VP does...
I guess you haven't followed politics enough to know that...
They cast the tie breaking vote for congress, they are also used to serve as a semi-embassador and spokesmen both domesticly and internationally...
As raist said - they may also be given more power depending on the President...

I know all that, I was just giving the condensed version.

And yes, I'm a liberal, but my issue is more that she doesn't seem to have a mind of her own. I'll admit that she was an effective governor, but this is someone who has policies that seem to have come right out of Rush Limbaugh's ass for all the issues she does legally have to know about (right down to the "operation Chaos" thing that he did with Hillary) and no policies on the issues she doesn't have to care about.

The pork barrel stuff is the one issue I'll give her credit for.

[Dark Luther]

I know all that, I was just giving the condensed version.

And yes, I'm a liberal, but my issue is more that she doesn't seem to have a mind of her own. I'll admit that she was an effective governor, but this is someone who has policies that seem to have come right out of Rush Limbaugh's ass for all the issues she does legally have to know about (right down to the "operation Chaos" thing that he did with Hillary) and no policies on the issues she doesn't have to care about.

The pork barrel stuff is the one issue I'll give her credit for.


Explain...please...
Give example..., quotes...
Don't just compare or make statements...
you say she has no mind of her own - make an example...
you say she's like Limbaugh - make precendence....

[Rainbow Dash]

I'm no expert on Limbaugh, but I know what he generally stands for, and that is whatever the conservative head stands for. And I'm not going to find a quote from her stating "I really have no idea what's going on, so I'll do what the party rulebook says." However, I can make connections in her policies - her anti-abortion stance that includes even rape, incest, and life threatening pregnancies; her conservative textbook position on education (teach creationism; restrict sex ed and teach only abstinence); and as I said before, doesn't believe that Global Warming has been influenced by humans. I can also connect her personality with many other over-the-top conservatives that I know. But if you want proof, no, there's no way for for me to prove everything I've said about her, but I feel that things will come out over time that will reinfocre my positions factually.

EDIT: Hahaa, just heard a segment from Limbaugh where he's practically orgasming over her.

[Lancet Jades]

I'm no expert on Limbaugh, but I know what he generally stands for, and that is whatever the conservative head stands for. And I'm not going to find a quote from her stating "I really have no idea what's going on, so I'll do what the party rulebook says." However, I can make connections in her policies - her anti-abortion stance that includes even rape, incest, and life threatening pregnancies; her conservative textbook position on education (teach creationism; restrict sex ed and teach only abstinence); and as I said before, doesn't believe that Global Warming has been influenced by humans. I can also connect her personality with many other over-the-top conservatives that I know. But if you want proof, no, there's no way for for me to prove everything I've said about her, but I feel that things will come out over time that will reinfocre my positions factually.
If you're going on your gut instincts for your arguments, perhaps a politics debate thread is not where you should be.

[Rainbow Dash]

How is my argument my gut instinct? Yes the same nerves that were raging for Hillary Clinton (where my gut wound up being right) are raging now, but I've heard a direct quote from Rush Limbaugh talking about her like she's the messiah, I've read up on her policies that I've heard described as outright frightening by others I've talked to, and I've seen the kinds of people that support her. There are pretty damn few decisions that are purely rational, so just because my instinct, which I've come to trust, is part of my decision to hate her (especially initially), doesn't mean I'm not thinking it through as much as realistically possible.

[Night]

How is my argument my gut instinct? Yes the same nerves that were raging for Hillary Clinton (where my gut wound up being right) are raging now, but I've heard a direct quote from Rush Limbaugh talking about her like she's the messiah, I've read up on her policies that I've heard described as outright frightening by others I've talked to, and I've seen the kinds of people that support her.So she's a terrible pick because you don't like the people who like her? Or is it mostly because the "others" you know also don't like her for some vague reasons.

There are pretty damn few decisions that are purely rational, so just because my instinct, which I've come to trust, is part of my decision to hate her (especially initially), doesn't mean I'm not thinking it through as much as realistically possible. If it is so strongly instinct, why do you keep on saying that this is about more than your instinct.

Also, define "as much as realistically possible", because nowhere in your posts have you displayed much more thought than we've all caught on CNN.

And you still don't fucking stop...
You have no merit in stating she was chosen only for her sex - other than personal perspective...
You sound just like a freaking Republican - demeaning another candidate with something so insulting - then going off yourself and saying it's sickening...

What if someone said the same thing of Obama?
That it's sickening that the democrats put him up only because he's black and that would garner a lot of votes...?The difference between Obama succesfully winning his party's nomination and Sarah Palin's appointment is that when Obama ran, it was anticipated that he'd win the youth and black vote, when Palin was appointed, there was a specific voter group that the McCain campaign had already begun appealing to. One's a political advantage, the other's a political ploy. Now if you're telling me that McCain's "THE DEMOCRATS DIDN'T PICK HILLARY CUZ THEY DON'T LOVE YOU BUT WE DO, WE LOVE YOU SO HARD" ad, and Sarah Palin's "We're going to break the glass cieling that Hillary was aiming for" speech were in no way actually connected, and that it's only my meritless perspective and bias for connecting the two, then that's fine with me, but I doubt seriously that a reasonable man such as yourself would make such a statement.

I saw the interview a couple weeks ago and that last part is pretty much what I got out of it at the time.Understand that this is difficult for me to admit, but I'd heard the quote in context and agree that that's what she meant, especially because she tagged on the "and I prefer being productive" note at the end, but I figgered I'd reinforce Yvl's point a lil' seeing as everyone's been jumping down his throat.

Then he posted some more.

And Obama's Biden pick shores up his lack of foreign policy experience. This isn't a new concept.Reinforcing his image by adding a more experienced man to the ticket isn't the same as appealing to a target audience by adding a vagina to the ticket.

[Rainbow Dash]

If it is so strongly instinct
Was. And it's looking more and more like my gut has been right yet again.

So she's a terrible pick because you don't like the people who like her? Or is it mostly because the "others" you know also don't like her for some vague reasons.

She's a terrible pick because she's exactly what McCain was running against until now, first of all. Second of all, all she does is energize the base (which he wasn't having THAT much of a hard time with anymore) while turning everyone else away twice as hard.

And yes, between my poli sci classes, other message boards (and no I don't go to any liberal-based political forums), and reports from my parents and who they talk to, I've heard close to 100 people's opinions on her, and the only ones that have been willing to defend her was the occasional diehard republican. (though not even all of them have been able to justify McCain's pick entirely.) Women, especially, are furious, because they see this as a misogynistic attempt by McCain to get them to vote for him just because he has a woman on the ticket, and they feel insulted.

Republicans are wary of her because she's exactly what they had been led to believe by McCain was the picture of incompotence. Independants and democrats don't like her because she's way too far to the right. And none of them have denied the possibility of McCain succumbing to age at some point, leaving her in charge.

Again, yes there is the occasional rush limbaugh or Ann Coulter than faps to her every night, but those people are irrational to begin with, and no I'm not writing them off as irrational just because they support her, but because thier views essentially come down to "AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!"

Also, define "as much as realistically possible", because nowhere in your posts have you displayed much more thought than we've all caught on CNN.
I'd REALLY rather not do that, as it's risky territory, and I'm sure I'll slip up here.

[Night]

Now you're using the opinions of 100 blue-staters to represent the entire country.

[Rainbow Dash]

Now you're using the opinions of 100 blue-staters to represent the entire country.
Where do you get that? I live in a swing state, first of all, and a couple of the forums I go to are actually heavily republican to the point that there are McCain ads on the site itself. Of course they don't represent the WHOLE country, but I feel it's an adequate enough mixture to form an opinion from.

[Lancet Jades]

Where do you get that? I live in a swing state, first of all, and a couple of the forums I go to are actually heavily republican to the point that there are McCain ads on the site itself. Of course they don't represent the WHOLE country, but I feel it's an adequate enough mixture to form an opinion from.
People you know, and people that those people know, are hardly a good, diverse group from which to draw solid conclusions.

[Rainbow Dash]

People you know, and people that those people know, are hardly a good, diverse group from which to draw solid conclusions.
Do you really think that I only hang around people that believe the same way I do? I mean, you criticize ME for making assumptions...

[Lancet Jades]

Do you really think that I only hang around people that believe the same way I do? I mean, you criticize ME for making assumptions...
I never said you do. I just said it's a rather limited group to draw a conclusion from, especially online forums populated by younger people, who tend to lean much more towards the left by default, and a lot of who (at least in my own experiences) hate the right for the "typical" reasons (GWB iz evil, out of iraq now, obama is our only hope, LOL MCSAME).

[Rainbow Dash]

That really is a stereotype, and you'd normally be right, but for some reason I found myself on a very conservative team in a political simulator game of all things (Cybernations, which I've told you about). There are people older than Kaffee there, and I'd say the average age is 25 or so, as the game is somewhat sophisticated and not all about flashy graphics and what have you.

Anyway, this thread isnt about who I talk to. My point was that I've heard criticisms of her from all sides, and that the only support I've heard of her are from people who were voting McCain anyway. I'm not saying that I have a professionally picked group of people from all 50 states.

[Applejack]

That really is a stereotype, and you'd normally be right, but for some reason I found myself on a very conservative team in a political simulator game of all things (Cybernations, which I've told you about). There are people older than Kaffee there, and I'd say the average age is 25 or so, as the game is somewhat sophisticated and not all about flashy graphics and what have you.
.



I PLAY A GAME WITH OLD PEOPLE AND AM ON A CONSERVATIVE TEAM, THEREFORE THAT MAKES IT A VIABLE SOURCE OF INFORMATION!

[Rainbow Dash]

I've discussed this stuff with them ffs.

[Dark Luther]

I'm no expert on Limbaugh, but I know what he generally stands for, and that is whatever the conservative head stands for. And I'm not going to find a quote from her stating "I really have no idea what's going on, so I'll do what the party rulebook says." However, I can make connections in her policies - her anti-abortion stance that includes even rape, incest, and life threatening pregnancies; her conservative textbook position on education (teach creationism; restrict sex ed and teach only abstinence); and as I said before, doesn't believe that Global Warming has been influenced by humans. I can also connect her personality with many other over-the-top conservatives that I know. But if you want proof, no, there's no way for for me to prove everything I've said about her, but I feel that things will come out over time that will reinfocre my positions factually.

EDIT: Hahaa, just heard a segment from Limbaugh where he's practically orgasming over her.


Yvl, your a fucking liar...
Half the shit you mentioned there is quite false if not taken out of line - and I can place proof that you are just making shit up...
But you put so much bull there - I frankly am at my wits end, putting so much.

She has kept her pledge not to place creationism in schools, and though personally believes partially in creationism - she keeps that out of her politics...
And so what if she does - a large percentage of people her age in the US lean towards that view. She's christian - so it's her belief, my parents believe it and so do my grandparents...
last I checked, it was a free country...

Anyway - this is a none issue..., not of specific political importance.

Yes, she's against abortion...
Last I checked, that's a major conservative issue -
and aside from politics, a large percentage of the national population is also against it. There are various reasons why to oppose it, and if someone believes to fight it - then that's their choice.

She is also critical of the science of global warming.
She doesn't say it's not real - she argues the human factor, and control issues.
Again, a conservative stance.
But this is an arguable concept.
I have my arguments with the Global warming science,
she is a much more conservative view - and I don't agree with it.


McCain is, or was, pro enviroment - but it's again a concept of personal belief.
His wife disagrees with her on the sex ed and abortion issues..., so then, that means she's a horrible pick..?
Look - I don't even agree with any of these issues - but I respect her choice and position on them...



Again - all you have stated is how much you dislike the woman because she's really conservative.
( Again - she's the Republican VP )
Then you turn and insult the woman and demean the reasons for her being picked for VP.
You can't even get her beliefs right -
and then you compare her to someone without merit, or even knowing what either stands for...
That's like comparing Obama with Michael Moore, just on the basis that they are both very liberal...
Sure - you say she follows party lines mindlessly, but again you have no merit or evidence in saying so - just your very worthless speculation.


If I sound annoyed, it's because you keep making speculations, accusations, and critic without any foundation,
and allowing your own belief get in the way of you very differant point...

Also - I've shown myself not to be a die hard republican time and again -
and somehow I still seem to be defending her appointment...

[Rainbow Dash]

I doubt I'm going to get you to see why I really can't respect her, but look at the larger picture. Stop taking the facts that I've posted at face value and plug them in with the rest of her record, apply them to her person, even if you have to make assumptions, and maybe you'll see what my problem is with her.

[Raist No. 2]

How is my argument my gut instinct? Yes the same nerves that were raging for Hillary Clinton (where my gut wound up being right) are raging now, but I've heard a direct quote from Rush Limbaugh talking about her like she's the messiah, I've read up on her policies that I've heard described as outright frightening by others I've talked to, and I've seen the kinds of people that support her.All these references you make to "people that support her" and "people that find her frightening" aren't really indicative or relevant to anything. I don't understand how it dragged on for as many posts as it did.

She's a terrible pick because she's exactly what McCain was running against until now, first of all.I'm trying to remember why this line of thought sounds so familiar. It's on the tip of my tongue, but I just can't... quite... place it. Maybe you can help me?

Again, yes there is the occasional rush limbaugh or Ann Coulter than faps to her every night, but those people are irrational to begin with, and no I'm not writing them off as irrational just because they support her, but because thier views essentially come down to "AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!"Hey, hey, let's just make one thing perfectly clear here: more people fap to Sarah Palin than the other three candidates combined.

Understand that this is difficult for me to admit, but I'd heard the quote in context and agree that that's what she meant, especially because she tagged on the "and I prefer being productive" note at the end, but I figgered I'd reinforce Yvl's point a lil' seeing as everyone's been jumping down his throat.Am I reading this right that you knew what she was saying but decided to take the quote out of context anyway?

'Cause that ain't cool, dude.

Also - I've shown myself not to be a die hard republican time and again -
and somehow I still seem to be defending her appointment...You should know by now that Yvl only ever sees what he wants to.

I'm out. Fo' reals this time. Have fun Luth, Mal... and apparently Lades again.

[Dark Luther]

I doubt I'm going to get you to see why I really can't respect her, but look at the larger picture. Stop taking the facts that I've posted at face value and plug them in with the rest of her record, apply them to her person, even if you have to make assumptions, and maybe you'll see what my problem is with her.


Yvl..., I doubt I'll ever get you to see that I really...really...reeeeeally.. . don't care what you believe and what you think of her...
and I could care less if you respect her or not...
That's simply not the issue of this thread...
( It's not a, I hate her - let's waste our time to convince Yvl to like her, thread )
It's not about you bro - it's the fact your stating things, making assumption, conclusions, accusations - without evidence or merit...
That for some reason that is beyond me, pisses me considerably beyond rational...

And the rest of what you state - you simply say ignore what you say and stop associating it with reality...


Yeah, Raist...
I think I'll be taking that bit of advise and just end it here...

[Rainbow Dash]

It's not about you bro - it's the fact your stating things, making assumption, conclusions, accusations - without evidence or merit...
Normally I'd back off and admit that I'm being irrational, but I really do have my reasons. It's not hard to get a picture of someone's personality judging by a few of their actions alone. Then again, the position you're probably upset about is probably one that I've already backed away from.

Yeah, Raist...
I think I'll be taking that bit of advise and just end it here...
Indeed, I really don't have anything to gain from my arguments other than being able to say "I told you so" if I do wind up being right anyway.

[Applejack]

Hey, hey, let's just make one thing perfectly clear here: more people fap to Sarah Palin than the other three candidates combined.

.



Nah, man, it's all about Bristol. Though Sarah will make quite the GMILF.

[Chicken Little]

Isn't the point of a political party to combat the other political parties? And wouldn't then these recognition speeches about how either side (although truth be told I only saw snibbits of McCain & Palin) be self defeating by saying that in the past and on issues their political parties can go screw themselves? (Maverick tagline) wouldn't instead being cohesive be a better platform to promote your party instead of the former?

And I also must say, without any context to go on since I only get brief notes, Palin's video thing about the VP that's been done to death no doubt, why exactly should anyone actually listen to her or see her as a viable alternative or political "nuisance" (for lack of a better word) since that basically showed a deep seeded ineptness for anything she'll become should McCain emerge victorious? I mean speaking outside, every man and his dog has been going on about how much of a retard Bush is and now we inherently have "duh what's a VP do?" not exactly painting a pretty picture for the rest of the world.

[Rainbow Dash]

ineptness
THAT'S the word I was looking for.

[Raist No. 2]

Link (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/palin_power_fresh_face_now_mor e_popular_than_obama_mccain)

Palin Power: Fresh Face Now More Popular Than Obama, McCain

Friday, September 05, 2008

A week ago, most Americans had never heard of Alaska Governor Sarah Palin. Now, following a Vice Presidential acceptance speech viewed live by more than 40 million people, Palin is viewed favorably by 58% of American voters. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 37% hold an unfavorable view of the self-described hockey mom.

The figures include 40% with a Very Favorable opinion of Palin and 18% with a Very Unfavorable view. Before her acceptance speech, Palin was viewed favorably by 52%. A week ago, 67% had never heard of her.

The new data also shows significant increases in the number who say McCain made the right choice and the number who say Palin is ready to be President. Generally, John McCain’s choice of Palin earns slightly better reviews than Barack Obama’s choice of Joe Biden.

Perhaps most stunning is the fact that Palin’s favorable ratings are now a point higher than either man at the top of the Presidential tickets this year. As of Friday morning, Obama and McCain are each viewed favorably by 57% of voters. Biden is viewed favorably by 48%.

There is a strong partisan gap when it comes to perceptions of Palin. Eighty-nine percent (89%) of Republicans give her favorable reviews along with 33% of Democrats and 59% of voters not affiliated with either major party.

She earns positive reviews from 65% of men and 52% of women. The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll shows that Obama continues to lead McCain among women voters while McCain leads among men. The Friday morning update—the first to include interviews conducted after Palin’s speech--showed the beginning of a Republican convention bounce that may match Obama’s bounce from last week.

Fifty-one percent (51%) of Americans believe that most reporters are trying to hurt Palin’s campaign, a fact that may enhance her own ratings.

The Palin pick has also improved perceptions of John McCain. A week ago, just before he introduced his running mate, just 42% of Republicans had a Very Favorable opinion of their party’s nominee. That figure jumped to 54% by this Friday morning. Among unaffiliated voters, favorable opinions of McCain have increased by eleven percentage points in a week—from 54% before the Palin announcement to 65% today.

Fifty-one percent (51%) of all voters now believe that McCain made the right choice when he picked Palin to be his running mate while 32% disagree. By way of comparison, on the night after Biden gave his acceptance speech, 47% said that Obama made the right choice.

Eighty-one percent (81%) of Republicans say that McCain made the right choice while just 69% of Democrats said the same about Obama.

Among unaffiliated voters, 52% said that McCain made the right choice for his running mate and 45% said the same about Obama.

Forty percent (40%) now say that Palin is ready to be President, if necessary. That’s up from 29% last week. Forty-nine percent (49%) say the same about Biden.

However, following the Wednesday night speech, voters are fairly evenly divided as to whether Palin or Obama has the better experience to be President. Forty-four percent (44%) of voters say Palin has the better experience while 48% say Obama has the edge. Among unaffiliated voters, 45% say Obama has better experience while 42% say Palin.

Fifty-eight percent (58%) of voters say that Palin’s speech helped McCain’s chances of becoming President while only 10% believe it hurt those prospects.

While Palin’s numbers are stunning today, it remains to be seen how the Alaska Governor’s numbers will hold up through the next two months. She has made a tremendous first impression, but the country will get to know her a lot better between now and November.


This national survey of 1,000 Likely Voters was conducted by Rasmussen Reports September 4, 2008. The margin of sampling error for each survey is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence.

And I also must say, without any context to go on since I only get brief notes, Palin's video thing about the VP that's been done to death no doubt, why exactly should anyone actually listen to her or see her as a viable alternative or political "nuisance" (for lack of a better word) since that basically showed a deep seeded ineptness for anything she'll become should McCain emerge victorious? I mean speaking outside, every man and his dog has been going on about how much of a retard Bush is and now we inherently have "duh what's a VP do?" not exactly painting a pretty picture for the rest of the world.Quoting again 'cause you must've missed it the first time, and also 'cause I'm still lazy: Beyond presiding over the Senate, casting tiebreaking votes when needed, and assuming the presidency should the situation arise, what the Vice Presidency does depends on what the President wants him (or her) to do. Some vice presidents (Dick Cheney, for instance) are granted lots of authority and responsibility within their administration, while others (such as Spiro Agnew) are kept as far away from anything as is possible.

The context given in her words after what you quoted suggests that Palin would not be interested in accepting the vice presidency if it meant being a nonentity.

[Rainbow Dash]

Forty percent (40%) now say that Palin is ready to be President, if necessary. That’s up from 29% last week. Forty-nine percent (49%) say the same about Biden.
That article, especially that line there, runs counter to everything else I've read. I JUST saw Biden's "ready to lead" numbers in the high 60s.

This national survey of 1,000 Likely Voters
I knew this sounded familliar.

I also just saw a clip of her (yes from the Daily show) saying that Hillary shouldn't wave the sexism card if she isnt tough enough to run for president, and that it makes all women look bad. Now she's doing the same.

I've also read reports that she supported the "bridge to nowhere" that she seems to proud about shutting down before other legislators killed the bill. And that the ethics reform laws that she is equally proud of were being worked on long before she came into office. That along with her attack on community organizers (even if it was more of an attack on Obama's past experience) is supporting my "gut" judgment of her pretty quickly.

[Chicken Little]

Quoting again 'cause you must've missed it the first time, and also 'cause I'm still lazy:

Well yeah I haven't exactly read the thread since it's got little to do with me, and that kinda paints a worse picture for me though in that if there were set duties that were forgotten i could be explained away that no experience in the role or the lead up roles could suffice for the lack of understanding on the position. That it seems to be open ended and a delegated, it still paints the picture of an inept person who then turned around and tried to use it to advantage or bash others without experience.

Seems a bit conflicting with the brief notes unless one makes an effort to get the context.

[Dark Luther]

Funny - Yvl keeps saying he sees differant stuff - but I've never seen him post it...

[Rainbow Dash]

Must I?

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086&title=Sarah-Palin-Gender-Card
http://www.factcheck.org/just-the-facts/the_partys_over.html

[Night]

Am I reading this right that you knew what she was saying but decided to take the quote out of context anyway?

'Cause that ain't cool, dude.I like to think of it more as putting myself in the shoes of somebody who didn't understand the context, but yes. I did what I did and there's no turning back.

Nah, man, it's all about Bristol. Though Sarah will make quite the GMILF. Shiiiiit I'd smash Bristol Palin. Though now the last guy to hit it is being forced to marry her, so I guess it's a good thing I never got the chance.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/in...in-Gender-CardI lol'd.

[Rainbow Dash]

I lol'd.
What, a person is unaccountable for their quotes just because one of the most brilliant pundits of our day put it on his humorous show?

[Night]

What, a person is unaccountable for their quotes just because one of the most brilliant pundits of our day put it on his humorous show? Well, when that person has been touting how unbiased and broad his sources are, then yes.

[Rainbow Dash]

I never said that dammit, I said the people I talked to, which was a diverse population including democrats, independants, and republicans, didn't like Sarah Palin, what the hell is wrong with that?

[Raist No. 2]

I also just saw a clip of her (yes from the Daily show) saying that Hillary shouldn't wave the sexism card if she isnt tough enough to run for president, and that it makes all women look bad. Now she's doing the same.But then, this isn't relevant in the least when you have no opinion on campaign tactics. =/

I've also read reports that she supported the "bridge to nowhere" that she seems to proud about shutting down before other legislators killed the bill.She's being misleading when she claims to have said "Thanks but no thanks," but other legislators didn't "kill the bill," they just removed the part that said the money had to go to the bridge. Like your own link claims, she still could've built it, she just decided to spend the money elsewhere.

Well yeah I haven't exactly read the thread since it's got little to do with me, and that kinda paints a worse picture for me though in that if there were set duties that were forgotten i could be explained away that no experience in the role or the lead up roles could suffice for the lack of understanding on the position. That it seems to be open ended and a delegated, it still paints the picture of an inept person who then turned around and tried to use it to advantage or bash others without experience.^ Could someone who speaks Fly please tell me what this says?

[Chicken Little]

^ Could someone who speaks Fly please tell me what this says?

In short, what credence does she have to speak of Obamas inexperience when she herself can be construed as not knowing an open ended position?

[Rainbow Dash]

but other legislators didn't "kill the bill,"
Ah, whoops, I worded it wrong.

[Dark Luther]

She has executive expirience which he doesn't...
But she isn't particular on criticizing him..., it's the other way around party wise..

[Rainbow Dash]

She's been attacking the entire job of "community organizer" just because he was one once. They'd just best not start attacking Ice Cream sellers too (link (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/09/obama-recounts-first-job%E2%80%94and-the-funny-hat-that-went-with-it/)) or it'll get personal. Er.

[Chicken Little]

She has executive expirience which he doesn't...
But she isn't particular on criticizing him..., it's the other way around party wise..

I don't get party wise news, it's why originally I stated the overseas "bits and pieces" approach. (since from memory there's a fair few postal votes from Americans outside of America) that when you get the bits and pieces, you therefore mostly get the individuals outside of the party line.

In that viewpoint it can be taken as her having that stance and doing that so it has some manner of double standards attached to her speeches.

The party line also ties semi back into the party cohesiveness i questioned earlier. I mean I'm used to elected leaders within parties then as soon as they're appointed it's all resources behind them unified front. How would then being against your party line or not taking part in it be a good thing? or even as I said before, McCain basically saying he's been screwing the party line for decades?

Is it just a national thing? Culture? Because it just seems weird to me.

[Rainbow Dash]

On one hand, he wants to appeal to the independents, and, without outside influences, the maverick would probably be his true form, much like how Bush was a very bipartisan governor before he met Cheney and Rumsfeld in the White House. On the other hand, he's an overall boring guy and can't really ignite a room, leaving much of his base unexcited, and unlikely to vote.

[Rainbow Dash]

My mother just forwarded something to me about Palin from someone who knew her growing up. This is not sponsored, endorsed, passed on, etc by Obama or Moveon or anything like that.

> > > Dear friends,
> > >
> > > So many people have asked me about what I know about Sarah Palin in
> > > the
> > > last 2 days that I decided to write something up . .
> > >
> > > Basically, Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton have only 2 things in
> > > common: their gender and their good looks. :)
> > >
> > > You have my permission to forward this to your friends/email contacts
> > > with my name and email address attached, but please do not post it on
> > > any websites, as there are too many kooks out there . .
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Anne
> > >
> > >
> > > ABOUT SARAH PALIN
> > >
> > > I am a resident of Wasilla, Alaska. I have known Sarah since 1992.
> > > Everyone here knows Sarah, so it is nothing special to say we are on a
> > > first-name basis. Our children have attended the same =0 Aschools. Her
> > > father was my child's favorite substitute teacher. I also am on a
> > > first name basis with her parents and mother-in-law. I attended more
> > > City Council meetings during her administration than about 99% of the
> > > residents of the city.
> > >
> > > She is enormously popular; in every way she’s like the most popular
> > > girl in middle school. Even men who think she is a poor choice and
> > > won't vote for her can't quit smiling when talking about her because
> > > she is a "babe".
> > >
> > > It is astonishing and almost scary how well she can keep a secret.
> > > She
> > > kept her most recent pregnancy a secret from her children and parents
> > > for seven months.
> > >
> > > She is "pro-life". She recently gave birth to a Down's syndrome baby.
> > > There is no cover-up involved, here; Trig is her baby.
> > >
> > > She is energetic and hardworking. She regularly worked out at the
> > > gym.
> > >
> > > She is savvy. She doesn't take positions; she just "puts things out
> > > there" and if they prove to be popular, then she takes credit.
> > >
> > > Her husband works a union job on the North Slope20 for BP and is a
> > > champion snowmobile racer. Todd Palin’s kind of job is highly
> > > sought-after because of the schedule and high pay. He arranges his
> > > work schedule so he can fish for salmon in Bristol Bay for a month or
> > > so in summer, but by no stretch of the imagination is fishing their
> > > major source of income. Nor has her life-style ever been anything
> > > like that of native Alaskans.
> > >
> > > Sarah and her whole family are avid hunters.
> > >
> > > She's smart.
> > >
> > > Her experience is as mayor of a city with a population of about 5,000
> > > (at the time), and less than 2 years as governor of a state with about
> > > 670,000 residents.
> > >
> > > During her mayoral administration most of the actual work of running
> > > this small city was turned over to an administrator. She had been
> > > pushed to hire this administrator by party power-brokers after she had
> > > gotten herself into some trouble over precipitous firings which had
> > > given rise to a recall campaign.
> > >
> > > Sarah campaigned in Wasilla as a “fiscal conservative”. During her 6
> > > years as Mayor, she increased general government expenditu res by over
> > > 33%. During those same 6 years the amount of taxes collected by the
> > > City increased by 38%. This was during a period of low inflation
> > > (1996-2002). She reduced progressive property taxes and increased a
> > > regressive sales tax which taxed even food. The tax cuts that she
> > > promoted benefited large corporate property owners way more than they
> > > benefited residents.
> > >
> > > The huge increases in tax revenues during her mayoral administration
> > > weren’t enough to fund everything on her wish list though, borrowed
> > > money was needed, too. She inherited a city with zero debt, but
> > > left it
> > > with indebtedness of over $22 million. What did Mayor Palin encourage
> > > the voters to borrow money for? Was it the infrastructure that she
> > > said
> > > she supported? The sewage treatment plant that the city lacked? or a
> > > new library? No. $1m for a park. $15m-plus for construction of a
> > > multi-use sports complex which she rushed through to build on a piece
> > > of property that the City didn’t even have clear title to, that was
> > > still in litigation 7 yrs later--to the delight of the lawyers
> > > involved! The sports complex itself is a nice addition to the
> > > community but a huge money pit, not the profit-generator she
> > > claimed it
> > > would be. She also supported bonds for $5.5m for road projects that
> > > could have been done in 5-7 yrs without any borrowing.
> > >
> > > While Mayor, City Hall was extensively remodeled and her office
> > > redecorated more than once.
> > >
> > > These are small numbers, but Wasilla is a very small city.
> > >
> > > As an oil producer, the high price of oil has created a budget surplus
> > > in Alaska. Rather than invest this surplus in technology that will
> > > make us energy independent and increase efficiency, as Governor she
> > > proposed distribution of this surplus to every individual in the
> > > state.
> > >
> > > In this time of record state revenues and budget surpluses, she
> > > recommended that the state borrow/bond for road projects, even while
> > > she proposed distribution of surplus state revenues: spend today's
> > > surplus, borrow for needs.
> > >
> > > She’s not very tolerant of divergent opinions or open to outside ideas
> > > or compromise. As Mayor, she fought ideas that weren’t generated by
> > > her or her staff . Ideas weren’t evaluated on their merits, but on the
> > > basis of who proposed them.
> > >
> > > While Sarah was Mayor of Wasilla she tried to fire our highly
> > > respected
> > > City Librarian because the Librarian refused to consider removing from
> > > the library some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents
> > > rallied to the defense of the City Librarian and against Palin's
> > > attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew
> > > her termination letter. People who fought her attempt to oust the
> > > Librarian are on her enemies list to this day.
> > >
> > > Sarah complained about the “old boy’s club” when she first ran for
> > > Mayor, so what did she bring Wasilla? A new set of "old boys". Palin
> > > fired most of the experienced staff she inherited. At the City and as
> > > Governor she hired or elevated new, inexperienced, obscure people,
> > > creating a staff totally dependent on her for their jobs and eternally
> > > grateful and fiercely loyal--loyal to the point of abusing their power
> > > to further her personal agenda, as she has acknowledged happened in
> > > the
> > > case of pressuring the State’s top cop (see below).
&g t; > >
> > > As Mayor, Sarah fired Wasilla’s Police Chief because he “intimidated”
> > > her, she told the press. As Governor, her recent firing of Alaska's
> > > top
> > > cop has the ring of familiarity about it. He served at her pleasure
> > > and she had every legal right to fire him, but it's pretty clear that
> > > an important factor in her decision to fire him was because he
> > > wouldn't
> > > fire her sister's ex-husband, a State Trooper. Under investigation
> > > for abuse of power, she has had to admit that more than 2 dozen
> > > contacts were made between her staff and family to the person that she
> > > later fired, pressuring him to fire her ex-brother-in-law. She
> > > tried to
> > > replace the man she fired with a man who she knew had been reprimanded
> > > for sexual harassment; when this caused a public furor, she withdrew
> > > her support.
> > >
> > > She has bitten the hand of every person who extended theirs to her in
> > > help. The City Council person who personally escorted her around town
> > > introducing her to voters when she first ran for Wasilla City Council
> > > became one of her first targets when she was later elected Mayor. She
> > > abruptly fired her loyal City Administrator; even people who didn’t
> > > like the guy were stunned by this ruthlessness.
> > >
> > > Fear of retribution has kept all of these people from saying anything
> > > publicly about her.
> > >
> > > When then-Governor Murkowski was handing out political plums, Sarah
> > > got
> > > the best, Chair of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission: one
> > > of the few jobs not in Juneau and one of the best paid. She had no
> > > background in oil & gas issues. Within months of scoring this great
> > > job which paid $122,400/yr, she was complaining in the press about the
> > > high salary. I was told that she hated that job: the commute, the
> > > structured hours, the work. Sarah became aware that a member of this
> > > Commission (who was also the State Chair of the Republican Party)
> > > engaged in unethical behavior on the job. In a gutsy move which
> > > some
> > > undoubtedly cautioned her could be political suicide, Sarah solved all
> > > her problems in one fell swoop: got out of the job she hated and
> > > garnered gobs of media attention as the patron saint of ethics and
> > > as a
> > > gutsy fighter against=2 0the “old boys’ club” when she dramatically quit,
> > > exposing this man’s ethics violations (for which he was fined).
> > >
> > > As Mayor, she had her hand stuck out as far as anyone for pork from
> > > Senator Ted Stevens. Lately, she has castigated his pork-barrel
> > > politics and publicly humiliated him. She only opposed the “bridge to
> > > nowhere” after it became clear that it would be unwise not to.
> > >
> > > As Governor, she gave the Legislature no direction and budget
> > > guidelines, then made a big grandstand display of line-item vetoing
> > > projects, calling them pork. Public outcry and further legislative
> > > action restored most of these projects--which had been vetoed simply
> > > because she was not aware of their importance--but with the
> > > unobservant
> > > she had gained a reputation as “anti-pork”.
> > >
> > > She is solidly Republican: no political maverick. The State party
> > > leaders hate her because she has bit them in the back and humiliated
> > > them. Other members of the party object to her self-description as a
> > > fiscal conservative.
> > >
> > > Around Wasilla there are people who went to high school with Sarah.
0A> > > They call her “Sarah Barracuda” because of her unbridled ambition and
> > > predatory ruthlessness. Before she became so powerful, very ugly
> > > stories circulated around town about shenanigans she pulled to be made
> > > point guard on the high school basketball team. When Sarah's
> > > mother-in-law, a highly respected member of the community and
> > > experienced manager, ran for Mayor, Sarah refused to endorse her.
> > >
> > > As Governor, she stepped outside of the box and put together of
> > > package
> > > of legislation known as “AGIA” that forced the oil companies to march
> > > to the beat of her drum.
> > >
> > > Like most Alaskans, she favors drilling in the Arctic National
> > > Wildlife
> > > Refuge. She has questioned if the loss of sea ice is linked to
> > > global warming. She campaigned “as a private citizen” against a state
> > > initiaitive that would have either a) protected salmon streams from
> > > pollution from mines, or b) tied up in the courts all mining in the
> > > state (depending on who you listen to). She has pushed the State’s
> > > lawsuit against the Dept. of the Interior’s decision to list polar
> > > bears as thre atened species.
> > >
> > > McCain is the oldest person to ever run for President; Sarah will be a
> > > heartbeat away from being President.
> > >
> > > There has to be literally millions of Americans who are more
> > > knowledgeable and experienced than she.
> > >
> > > However, there’s a lot of people who have underestimated her and are
> > > regretting it.
> > >
> > >
> > > CLAIM VS FACT
> > > •“Hockey mom”: true for a few years
> > > •“PTA mom”: true years ago when her first-born was in elementary
> > > school, not since
> > > •“NRA supporter”: absolutely true
> > > •social conservative: mixed. Opposes gay marriage, BUT vetoed a bill
> > > that would have denied benefits to employees in same-sex relationships
> > > (said she did this because it was unconsitutional).
> > > •pro-creationism: mixed. Supports it, BUT did nothing as Governor to
> > > promote it.
> > > •“Pro-life”: mixed. Knowingly gave birth to a Down’s syndrome baby
> > > BUT declined to call a special legislative session on some pro-life
> > > legislation
> > > •“Experienced”: Some high school s have more students than Wasilla has
> > > residents. Many cities have more residents than the state of Alaska.
> > > No legislative experience other than City Council. Little hands-on
> > > supervisory or managerial experience; needed help of a city
> > > administrator to run town of about 5,000.
> > > •political maverick: not at all
> > > •gutsy: absolutely!
> > > •open & transparent: ??? Good at keeping secrets. Not good at
> > > explaining actions.
> > > •has a developed philosophy of public policy: no
> > > •”a Greenie”: no. Turned Wasilla into a wasteland of big box stores
> > > and disconnected parking lots. Is pro-drilling off-shore and in ANWR.
> > > •fiscal conservative: not by my definition!
> > > •pro-infrastructure: No. Promoted a sports complex and park in a
> > > city
> > > without a sewage treatment plant or storm drainage system. Built
> > > streets to early 20th century standards.
> > > •pro-tax relief: Lowered taxes for businesses, increased tax
> > > burden on
> > > residents
> > > •pro-small government: No. Oversaw greatest expansion of city
> > > government in Wasilla’s history.
> > > •pro-labor/pro-union. No. Just20because her husband works union
> > > doesn’t make her pro-labor. I have seen nothing to support any claim
> > > that she is pro-labor/pro-union.
> > >
> > > WHY AM I WRITING THIS?
> > >
> > > First, I have long believed in the importance of being an informed
> > > voter. I am a voter registrar. For 10 years I put on student voting
> > > programs in the schools. If you google my name (Anne Kilkenny +
> > > Alaska), you will find references to my participation in local
> > > government, education, and PTA/parent organizations.
> > >
> > > Secondly, I've always operated in the belief that "Bad things happen
> > > when good people stay silent". Few people know as much as I do because
> > > few have gone to as many City Council meetings.
> > >
> > > Third, I am just a housewife. I don't have a job she can bump me out
> > > of. I don't belong to any organization that she can hurt. But, I
> > > am no
> > > fool; she is immensely popular here, and it is likely that this will
> > > cost me somehow in the future: that’s life.
> > >
> > > Fourth, she has hated me since back in 1996, when I was one of the 100
> > > or so people who rallied to support20the City Librarian against Sarah's
> > > attempt at censorship.
> > >
> > > Fifth, I looked around and realized that everybody else was afraid to
> > > say anything because they were somehow vulnerable.
> > >
> > > CAVEATS
> > > I am not a statistician. I developed the numbers for the increase in
> > > spending & taxation 2 years ago (when Palin was running for Governor)
> > > from information supplied to me by the Finance Director of the City of
> > > Wasilla, and I can't recall exactly what I adjusted for: did I adjust
> > > for inflation? for population increases? Right now, it is
> > > impossible
> > > for a private person to get any info out of City Hall--they are
> > > swamped. So I can't verify my numbers.
> > >
> > > You may have noticed that there are various numbers circulating for
> > > the
> > > population of Wasilla, ranging from my "about 5,000", up to 9,000.
> > > The
> > > day Palin’s selection was announced a city official told me that the
> > > current population is about 7,000. The official 2000 census count was
> > > 5,460. I have used about 5,000 because Palin was Mayor from 1996 to
> > > 2002, and the city was growing rapidly in the m id-90’s.
No tl;dr, as I'm still reading it myself.

[Nickelback]

I hate this whole troopergate bullshit.