Divided Georgia

[Chicken Little]

MOSCOW — Russian tanks rumbled into the breakaway Georgian republic of South Ossetia on Friday, and volunteer Russian fighters reportedly made their way over the border, pushing Moscow closer to a full-blown war against U.S.-backed Georgia.

The fighting that erupted among Georgia, Russia and Ossetian rebels over the mountainous sliver of land threatened to provide a battleground for long-simmering tensions between Moscow and the West. At nightfall, each side was calling in reinforcements and pumping out its own radically unique version of the day's events.

A sharp escalation began earlier Friday, when Georgia launched a large-scale, predawn military operation meant to seize control over the rebel region, whose de facto autonomy and ties to Russia have long been an irritant to Georgian leaders. Backed by warplanes, Georgian troops plunged into South Ossetia and waged a hard battle throughout the day for control of the republic's capital, Tskhinvali.

Officials on both sides reported civilian deaths, although estimates could not be confirmed. South Ossetian officials said that some 1,400 people had been killed in the battles, and Georgia announced that 30 people had died in the Russian bombardment.

Each side blamed the other for violating a shaky cease-fire.

Source & continuation (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hotstories/5933338.html)

Russia and Georgia edged dangerously close to direct conflict today after Tbilisi launched an overnight offensive to regain control over the breakaway province of South Ossetia.

Fighting raged around the city of Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian capital, as Georgian troops backed by tanks and warplanes pounded separatist forces. At least 15 people were reported to have been killed.

The fighting had raised fears of an all-out war that could draw in Russia, which has peacekeepers in South Ossetia and which backs the separatists.

"There has been bombing on Georgian territory by the Russian Federation," said Mikhail Saakashvili, the Georgian President. "It is nothing but classic international aggression."

Source & continuation (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4483968.ece)

TBILISI, Georgia - At least 1,500 people have been killed in fighting in Georgia's embattled breakaway province of South Ossetia, Russia's foreign minister said on Saturday.

Sergey Lavrov told a conference call with foreign journalists that the death toll was continuing to rise.

Meanwhile, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said Russian troops must protect civilians in South Ossetia and force Georgia into a cease fire. Many people in the province hold Russian passports.

He described the situation in as a "humanitarian catastrophe"

Georgia launched an offensive to regain control over South Ossetia. Russia responded by sending in armed convoys.

Georgia accuses Russia of bombing its towns, ports and air bases and has asked the international community to help end what it called Russian aggression. Source & continuation (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26080747/)

So what do we think about all sides of the supposed conflict here? Is Russia right in effectively defending their countrymen who happen to be in the area or promoting the succession? Georgia right in attempting to stop the succession by military force? What about the US' role as a backer of Georgia or their aspirations for NATO membership? The UN Security council and the larger possible conflict or political importance?

[Zelphiel]

I think Russia should defend their people by getting them out and just saying fuck it.

that's what I would do anyway since it is a civil war after all.

[Chicken Little]

I think Russia should defend their people by getting them out and just saying fuck it.

that's what I would do anyway since it is a civil war after all.

Mass displacement, where would all those people then live? Siberia?

The west is inherently worried that if these people secede and friendly western becomes friendly Moscow than countries like Ukraine would be thinking a reinvention of the USSR and now our government is pwnt. Most from what I've read has been the west stating the "party line" that they "recognise Georgias sovereignty over South Ossetia" despite then going to on to say effectively even if the West backed president artillery shelled it back into the fold and that Russia had no need for any military in the area.

That this also happened during a "plead" from Beijing and the IOC for no hostilities during the Olympic period and the Georgian president stating that the timing of the hostilities was not "random" we really have a country wishing for NATO membership, backed by the West who have, for the good part of a decade been stating that Russia has violated its airspace, South Ossetia & Abkhaz were "problems" there seems to be nothing but "oh bad Russia!"

Surely though the Georgian government is not one you'd want with NATO status given the current claims.

[Rainbow Dash]

For fucks sake why do we always sign the treaties with the assholes? I just hope we can stay out of this. The fact that Iran is a stone's throw away from Georgia worries me too.

I couldnt really care less about other governing styles, as long as they don't go massacring their citizens' pets when an official gets bit by one or something like that.

[Night]

I don't fully comprehend the two preceding posts.

Russia is no longer the USSR, and I think it's time we recognize that small border disputes do not yet constitute a reconstitution of the now deconstituted Soviet Union.

[Rainbow Dash]

I don't fully comprehend the two preceding posts.

Russia is no longer the USSR, and I think it's time we recognize that small border disputes do not yet constitute a reconstitution of the now deconstituted Soviet Union.
Of course. But the fact is that the generation that grew up under intense cold war propaganda and James Bond movies is now in power, and it hasnt been all THAT long since the war ended. I mean, look at China and Japan. Yes, the Japanese did some of the worst acts ever committed in history during their invasion of China, but that generation STILL clings onto that and fervently hates all the Japanese even at the age of 70 - 80 or so, even if Japan is nothing even resembling what they were during World War 2.

It's not as severe with us and Russia, but there is still an element of dubiousness among certain officials, I'm sure.

[Nickelback]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2341/2748612850_1d40f3352d.jpg?v=0

http://fumpr.com/images/ja9649gwx25j20sykl0q.png

[Chicken Little]

I don't fully comprehend the two preceding posts.

Russia is no longer the USSR, and I think it's time we recognize that small border disputes do not yet constitute a reconstitution of the now deconstituted Soviet Union.

It's the worry of the west though in some circles where they view this as Russia regaining territory they "lost" when the USSR dissolved into the Russian Federation we have currently, especially since Putin has reformed the fervent nationalism & military strength with Medvedev viewed as a semi puppet since he retained Putin as his prime minister. People would, seeing that Georgia was a USSR vassal state before its dissolution and that, if Russias "claim" for South Ossetia is viewed as legit it would then undermine not only the Wests effort to gain favour in the area but prop up Russia and possibly then have other former USSR states with Russian sympathisers taking steps to secede also or push out pro west governments (like Georgias current).

Of course I don't take stock in such conjecture that Russia wants to reform the USSR land gains since they couldn't keep the claims with their current economy anyway. It just seems that wherever Russia is involved in a military exercise, some western media sources decide "zomg USSR reformation, dirty commie pricks!"

[Parallax]

The pick and choose methodology for the internal disputes the United States becomes involved in continue to baffle me. How can anyone in the States call the struggle in Georgia a humanitarian crisis while we spend decades ignoring butchering like Dharfur?

BECAUSE THE USSR IS INVOLVED. RUN FOR THE HILLS.

No seriously, I don't understand why this matter even extends beyond Georgia's borders. I feel soundly that this is an internal dispute, and there ought to be a hands-off policy all around. Too bad that's just not the way it works, huh?

[Rainbow Dash]

I... honestly never looked at it that way. Wow.

[Sassafrass Raistimass]

The pick and choose methodology for the internal disputes the United States becomes involved in continue to baffle me. How can anyone in the States call the struggle in Georgia a humanitarian crisis while we spend decades ignoring butchering like Dharfur?

BECAUSE THE USSR IS INVOLVED. RUN FOR THE HILLS.

No seriously, I don't understand why this matter even extends beyond Georgia's borders. I feel soundly that this is an internal dispute, and there ought to be a hands-off policy all around. Too bad that's just not the way it works, huh?I have a number of issues with the point you're attempting, but chief among them is your seeming insistence that this is just an "internal dispute" despite being aware of Russia's involvement, which makes it anything but.

I... honestly never looked at it that way. Wow.To be fair though, you have a history of letting other people do your thinking for you.

[Parallax]

I have a number of issues with the point you're attempting, but chief among them is your seeming insistence that this is just an "internal dispute" despite being aware of Russia's involvement, which makes it anything but.

To be fair though, you have a history of letting other people do your thinking for you.

You're not understanding the point I'm trying to make, then. My point is, why is Russia involved in the first place? The matter began as a matter of internal disputes for Georgia, after which Russia invaded with its troops, which is now the matter at hand.

But unlike hundreds of others conflicts worldwide that the United States has completely ignored since its inception, as soon as Russian troops cross a border, it's newsworthy.

I think that happens to be absurd. THAT is the point I'm trying to make. And nothing else but that.