homophobes and racists

[Wallie Wildo]

me and rick are arguing so i just want to get your oppinion

is hating gays the same as being a racist
because judging a group of people on the actions of few is the same as being racist lets say a black guy killed your mom so you grow up a racist lets say that you wwere raped as a child by a gay guy and grow up hating gays is that not the same your judging a group of peopel on the actions of few

[Saberstar]

OMG, your post is so..not Cacaw. :p
It's been typed with not as much error as you used to. I guess this means you're really serious about the topic.
Well, i'd say it's the same.
Thinking that your race is better is no different from thinking your sexuality is better then another. It's also a sin and um >_> I need someone to post so i can type more nonesense.

[Rick_dowg2099]

grrrrrrrrrrrrr arf arf its not the same thing...cus your not born gay dont say you can be without going and getting facts first grrr and heres a question do eather of you hate the kkk? if so ummm why cus its a sin to hate and its racist to pick on one group of ppl bla bla bla so cacaw you hate rap there for you hate the ppl that make rap music and thats a big group of ppl so it looks like your the same as me so wtf is up man?

[Saberstar]

grrrrrrrrrrrrr arf arf its not the same thing...cus your not born gay dont say you can be without going and getting facts first grrr and heres a question do eather of you hate the kkk? if so ummm why cus its a sin to hate and its racist to pick on one group of ppl bla bla bla so cacaw you hate rap there for you hate the ppl that make rap music and thats a big group of ppl so it looks like your the same as me so wtf is up man?

And you would know that people are not born gay because...? You're not gay yourself so you don't know. Only those who are borned gay or what not knows for certain.
I don't really hate the KKK. I just think the stuff they do isn't right. I'm not good in history. They are a bit racist and such, I believe.
Cacaw hates Rap, but he never mention about hating the people who likes Rap did he? Rap is a thing, not a person.

[Wallie Wildo]

when did i say i hate rappers and yes i do hate the kkk they are all the same and everyone knows it they all hate blacks so thats kinda dumb to bring up

[Zelphiel]

I added the "they're similar" option... which I voted for.

[Wallie Wildo]

lol i should have put that in but i only wanted 2 options so we could tell who wins :D

[Rick_dowg2099]

cacaw has made posts saying things like die ppl who like rap but that wasent my question...i said dont say anything about being born gay inless you find some facts cus there isent any and there are ppl whos jobs are to look for stuff in the body and mind to see if you can be born into serton things like alcoholism and just so you know, you cant be ...it makes no sence as to how you can call me racist you say its cus im picking one group of ppl and hatting them right? well the gay ppl of the world arent a race so eather come up with a new word or make the question easyer

[Saberstar]

Do you not think Cacaw is joking? Do you really think he wish people who likes Rap to die?
Well don't make me bring god to this, because you have no fact that he exist either. But being born gay, you can only know yourself if you are one. That's fact right their, you can choose to believe it or not. Your other crap made no sense..

[Wallie Wildo]

i never called you racist dummy and im joking when i say things like die people who like rap silly rick

[Rick_dowg2099]

i know it was a joke back in the day but still he said you never said it but u did grrrr how did the world come from its peacfull state of knowing what was rong and right to thinking that its ok to butt fuck?lol ...and it hasent always been a group of ppl its just now that there all crawling out of the wood work and banning together cus thay see the need to justisfy a rong. and if thay can get marred then thay wont get as much taxes takin off of there cheeks

[Saberstar]

I have no clue what you wanted to say. @_@ Just so you know, guys give girls buttsecks as well. So if you think it's disgusting, this would apply to straight men and women as well. so HA! Eat that bitch.

[Rick_dowg2099]

i dont see nothing wrong with ass fucking as long as its not a guy doing it to a gay you know what im talking about grrrr and i got your bitch swingin give up the 3 of us have ran out of shit to say i win mmooaahahahahahahahahaha

[Saberstar]

I can always bring in the god debate. :D I win, you stupid weed bitch.

[Rick_dowg2099]

true i am weeds bitch, you dont know enough to even bring god into any of the threads in ef..this thread dosent make any sence grrrr how is not likeing gays rasict and how are thay even a group????

[Wallie Wildo]

i never said it was you retard

[Rick_dowg2099]

and you also havent answered any of my questions grrr

[Saberstar]

I may not be religious but it seems like I am closer to him then you are. I treat most people equally, doesn't matter who they are. The only people i can't stand are idiots. *points to you* :p
Disliking gay is not racist. But they are very much alike. You're discriminating the fact that they are different then you are. Reason why you hate them. Therefore they are very much alike. Rick, use your brain. Or no more weed for you.

[Wallie Wildo]

you edited them in dummy how are they a group you are truely the dumbest person at ef arnt you everybody who has something in common is a group

[Rick_dowg2099]

you fuck nuts call me dumb again and you know what? ill be called dumb grrrr.......
dont mock me lil dude about my closness to god..when your off fingering your ass(how do i know this,look at your old name) im chillin in church ,true i shouldent have just said that but im running out of stuff to say lol im out of this thread till more ppl post or you guys make more sence

[Saberstar]

you fuck nuts call me dumb again and you know what? ill be called dumb grrrr.......


That proves that you still have hope in you.
I don't finger my ass. I'd rather have Rick do it for me. <_<;;
Your closeness to God, heh...yeah sure, whatever. You may be devoted to him, but you surely don't follow a lot of his rules.

And for all I know. We DO make sense. You're the one deciding not to accept what we said.

[Rick_dowg2099]

a sin is a sin no matter what you do but i think my 2 out of 10 isent that bad? apose to a person who has turned his back on god and is spreeding the word that it is ok for you to lay with another man...even if one day thay do make it ok for gays to rome free and do wtf ever thay wish you still will only get respect from other lost gays so really your fighting a lost cause

[Saberstar]

Well not every straight, religious person thinks like you do. So you're the one who isn't getting any respect. And I doubt you commited 2 out of 10 sins.
Sins you have commited would include pride, lust, anger, and other ones...well you get the point. Or not since you're Rick.

[Rick_dowg2099]

i was talking about the sins im doing now unlike you not all ppl live in sin and the ones i have done have been forgives numb nuts ,so you know 95% of the U.S. is christian but thay all dont have the hate for gays that i do..be happy that you are backed up here at ef by 3 of the 5 %

[Saberstar]

3 of the 5%? HA!
Everyone has commited sins in their lives. It depends how serious it is.

[Rick_dowg2099]

nooo every sin is the same there is only one sin that will not be forgiven and thats where you mock god/jesus/holy sprit..ok so its more like 1 of the 5 % nonchristians

[Saberstar]

<_< you're hopeless...maybe you've never heard of the 7 deadly sin. :p

[Rick_dowg2099]

lmmfao lmmfao damn dude atless when i say something about god/bible its IN the DAMN BIBLE dude wtf man the 7 deadly sins blabla isent in the bible...man pick your battles pick the ones where your not talking to a guy in bible college..numb nuts

[Saberstar]

not everything in the bible is right, Ricky.
And it's obvious that GOD is mentioned in the BIBLE. duh
bible college...well i'd say it isn't really for college type people. It's education is as close to an elementary school. Reason why you're so...dumb.

[Laggy]

I'm not goping to come in here and fight like the 3 opf you have like some little kids..

i dont think that its the same, hating for skin color is what racists is, noone did anything at all but be born into a familiy of opne color that gets hated, they did nothing at all to be hated for, so its not the same

gays.. are gay, the are guys with guys or girls with girls. when in my thinking we were made to be guy with girl, we were made to have kids and them have kids, gays cant have kids..well..not in the right way.

also on one of kennys posts, just to add.. i wouldnt have sex with a girl in the ass.. i like pussy, and thats that.

[Zelphiel]

man pick your battles pick the ones where your not talking to a guy in bible college..numb nuts


honestly, you should find another "bible college" to attend. almost all of what you've displayed tonight is anything but what a student in a divine study would. In your religion hatred is a tool of evil isn't it? You seem to have quite a bit of it. Maybe you should straighten out your priorities a little before starting an inquisition. Just pointing at people and yelling 'heretic' doesn't make you very godly. Even if you don't like the fact that there other people that are a different religion or have a different sexual preferance than you doesn't mean you have to hate them. Christianity is supposed to be a religion of tolerance, not a supporter and promoter of bigots.

[Laggy]

rick isnt a nice guy at times, and we have a things we dont like.. that doesnt make us un Godly, just like i smoke cigs, and drink and use to smoke weed, been in jail and im on probation, that doesnt make me unGodly, its about how you think. kenny is right we all sin, and i am learning to not hate people for such things as being gay, i still say that it is somthing you choose and not born with, which is why to me it is not the same as being racist..

[Saberstar]

You're not gay yourself, so you can't say that they are not born gay. You have to be one to know for sure. Of course you don't automatically love someone as soon as you are born. And it is the same as being racist. You're still judging another kind.

[Zelphiel]

rick isnt a nice guy at times, and we have a things we dont like.. that doesnt make us un Godly, just like i smoke cigs, and drink and use to smoke weed, been in jail and im on probation, that doesnt make me unGodly, its about how you think. kenny is right we all sin, and i am learning to not hate people for such things as being gay, i still say that it is somthing you choose and not born with, which is why to me it is not the same as being racist..


yeah, maybe for you but Rick on several occasions tonight has said and shown an extreme hatred for homosexuals. that, in my oppinion does make you a lot less righteous. Hate is definately one thing that you have to cleanse yourself of when you're going into the profession that you and Rick are. You, I've seen make some progress since debates like this started at EF, but from what I've read tonight and in the past Rick has made none.

[Laggy]

but racist is hating for somthing that in no way could not have been helped

and no im not gay, but i still have a say in it, and the right to think what i think, but ask lekky about what i think, she knows.. i think thatmy main prob' is not being able to get passed not liking gays, i wish that i didnt give a damn, and i am trying to over look it.. but in my mind it is slill wrong, though i dont fight on that anymore.

but this thread isnt about hating gays per say, you guys turned it into somthing it shouldnt have been

this is about rather or not homophobes and racists are the same

and to point out what has yet to be pointed out

a homophob is someone who is scared of gays, a racist is someone who hats someone for race, not someone who is scared of another race, so this thread is pointless

thats what you guys missed, im homophobic, meaning gays scar me to be around, i dont know why...

i am not racephobic, or racist, but is anything is close to being a hmophobic it would be racephobic then at least this thread would be dealing with to things alike

though im sure you just mean someone who hates gays

[Saberstar]

homophobe are those who hate AND dislike gays. Racist are nonetheless the same. But it's people who dislike and think they are superior. And you CAN help it, if you do have something against among another race. I wasn't too fond of black people back when I was young. I think most of them are asses. But as time pass, I found out that not all of them are like that. I was foolish back then, not realizing it. In time I grew to like a few and end up making friends with some of them. And yes i was a bit racist back then, I dislike them but not in a way thinking Asians are better then them. In a way I was afraid of them. Thinking whenever i go near one, they'll end up starting crap with me. That itself, is the same definition as being a homophobe.

[Laggy]

your wrong on one thing, homophobic means that someone is scared of gays in a way they cant help, as most phobics they would have to get some real help to get passed it. its like any other phobic, some i have seen freez up around gay people and can't talk or anything.. its mustlikly because of somthing that happend to them in t he past (i know a few phobics) find the real term for people who just hate gays for the hell of it, if you want to keep fighting that

and like i said, there are racephobics who are once more scared of other races, but thats not what this is about, the hate for another race just because they arent the same color is wrong indeed, much more so then the hate for gays BECAUSE gay people at least do have sex with the same sex, what do other races do other then be born anopther race?,...anyone get my point at all?

[Saberstar]

http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/homophobe

search in any dictionary. It will say hate and fear.

No, i don't think anyone gets your point. Unless the person reading is the same level as you are.

[Laggy]

yes hate or fear, but the hate that a phobic would have for things is such a hate that they go around killing the people or thing there phobic is for. this i have studied

i cant remember the right term for someone like right.. who just doesn like the..he iosnt phobic because i dont think he would kill anyone for it, and he isnt scared of them per say,... there is a term for just disliking gays....

[Saberstar]

Disliking gays because you find it disgusting when 2 of the same gender having sex, right?
Perhaps the word "hate" is too strong. Dislike and hate in a way has the same meaning. Dislike is the same as being hostile. Hosility is another word for hate.
Therefore they are the same.

[Laggy]

bigot ..that is the word i would use for the dislike of gays, just not liking them, ts not the same as hate, because a true hate would drive someone to killing for it, a hate that a phobic has is still part of there scaredness

I am Closter phobic, homophobic and a phobia of drawing and I have seen a doc for too of them, I know a thing or two about phobias

i would say that not liking them for it could be alot like not liking someone for skin color, but a phobia is somthing you cant help, one of the things that comes with it is the fear to even be around them, just to hate a gay ..like peopel who just hate other races? you can still stand to be around them but dont want to...it isnt the same

[Saberstar]

Have you not realize that words can have more then one meaning? I'm talking about the verb, not noun.
Doc may dislike gay people but he's not as dense as you are. He HAS a gay friend. He has given that person some hope, opening up to them. Unlike you people...

[Zelphiel]

actually a synonym for bigot is racist... just thought I'd point that out.

[Laggy]

anyway i'll agree that not liking gays, and not liking someopne for there skin color is on the same page

but im only saying that a phobic is not anything like this, a phobic is more then a comen fear, its somthing that takes alot of work to overcome.

but for the most part i have agreed with you on this topic, so please dont refer to me as "you people"


:edit: we have only referd to bogot as being racist, im saying that a thread trying to ask such a thing as this should have been more of "do you think that someone hateing gays could be bigotry"

because IMO a bigot can be more things then just racist, as cacaw and kenny are trying to point out, but lacking the right words to know how to do it

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

I said that they're similar because I mean. MOST peoples believes(religion) does't say anything about what color your supposed to be, or to hate another race because of their color. On the other hand a lot of people have religious beliefs that make them disprove of homosexuals. I mean its still sort of the same just cause your hating someone just because of who/what they are.

[Saberstar]

I fear black people, doesn't mean i can't open up and make friends with them. Knowing that not ALL of them are like that. So what exactly is your point again?
I still despise and will mostly always be afraid of them. but at least i'm willingly able to try and accept them.

[Laggy]

i edeited this in but im going to post it so its seen, this is on laths post

we have only referd to bigot as being racist, im saying that a thread trying to ask such a thing as this should have been more of "do you think that someone hateing gays could be bigotry"

because IMO a bigot can be more things then just racist, as cacaw and kenny are trying to point out, but lacking the right words to know how to do it

[Laggy]

kenny, i am trying to accept gays.. i was talking to lekky and fly the other day about this, i need to talk to someone gay who has a real point on it, you seem more of someone who is gay just because you can be, you have nothing to stand your points on, the way you talk couldnt ever make someone like me agree with someone like you, and that is what you should be trying.

the more i talk to you on this topic the more i dont want to try to overcome a phobia of it, but i try anyway.. and it is somthing that will take time...

you ate talking like racist and people who hate gays are so bad, but you hate people who dont like gays, so how are you any better? i know someone who is gay that even if someone doesnt like gays he dont hate them for it, but you do sop any points you make i dont need to hear, because your no better then anyone else for that

[Saberstar]

The word bigot should not be used as you please to. It is categorized into many things such as antifeminist, chauvinist, homophobe, partisan, racialist, racist, sectarian, segregationist, segregator, zealot.
So since you use the word bigot to describe for disliking gays. It would be the same as using the word "racist" as well.

[Laggy]

thats fine, use the word racist or sexist for all i care, like i said they are all on the same page, i agree with that, i was just saying that a phobia is not on the same page, in my book

[Saberstar]

I don't hate people who dislike gays. I simply pity them. There is a difference. If I do hate homophobe, I wouldn't spend time being friends with them. It all depends how they think. Although you and your brother simply lack this understanding...
People like i'd say Algo. Yeah sure he's just like Doc, he's Doc's friend as a matter of fact. Religious like he is. He dislike gays, but he doesn't give a rat ass about them as long as they don't mess with him. I don't see how others can't think like he does. I mean why should you care what they do or not. It's none of your damn business. As well as the gay marriage. He simply doesn't care, it's their live.

[Laggy]

but if its not any of our damn bizz then why bring it up like this.. you make it ours.. if that is true and it isnt any of our damn bisines then it itsnt any of yours rather or not we like it or not...

[Saberstar]

Well i obviously can't stop you from disliking gay people. That's not my business. My point here is to tell you to stop treating them all like demons. Because if you do do that, then you're treating me as one as well. Which makes it my business.

[Laggy]

i think its a sin, but i never called you a demon, we all sin... hell i sin alot :D

but i dont live in the same sin all day every day and wont.. but that is up to you, i never siad it wasnt, but i dont agree with them having any rights to be married because i think that alot of people would end up being hurt, even gays and i dont want that... on them getting married i think that they would later make it so that chruches couldnt turn gays down for being married, and i think thats up to the church, and you can say that someone in love is ok because its love and all that BS but even some guys with girls never get married, not like it kills anyone..
IF you really love a guy kenny, it wouldnt matter rather or not you can get married, you'd still be with him right?.. so the fight all people are useing doesnt make me give a rats ass.. because it wont change anything other then making it so you get a paper saying your married.

it isnt just about rights, its about alot of other things

you change the fact that gays cant get married, what else will be changed for them?.. because it never stops..there will always be somthing gays bitch about, and its the same about alot of things.. you think im dumb because i dont agree with you, well if you know some opther things i think, you'd hate me, but its how i think, and that is my right, until they change the laws that make it so i have a right to think for myself, shut up about it

[Kiros]

i say its similar

[Saberstar]

There has been many changes throughout the past. Men and women having the same right. White and black being treat equally and fairly. Why not gays?
And Marriage, i could care less. If getting married means something to them then let them. If you say getting married is just getting a paper, then whoo perhaps men and women shouldn't get married as well I mean there's not much of a purpose in them doing so either.
And I have said this a gew times. I may approval of gay marriage, but not adopting kids. It would ruin the child's life. Then again, even if they do adopt one, it's not neccesary a bad thing. Considering how much are being born every darn second. And the world itself is being overpopulated.

[Laggy]

well i agree with you on the kid thing, and some of what you said is what i said you'd hate me for


wemon bitched to much about it in the past to get what they wanted, they did some things that i dont agree with, im happy for them and blacks for having our rights...i am BUT it took alot and a long time for people to get use to it
some till arent thats why we have racists

now, unless gays are willing to do alot and work hard, they dont need our rights, and they need to know that just like the wemon and blacks thing, it isnt just going to change then woot its all good, it will take alot of time, years even


i dont think that gays gettin these rights handed to them is right, being noone else did, why should they?... also i know that it will take a long time for everything to get right again after this takes place

and i dont want to see "war" or the like of it in the USA in my life time, and it iwll happen, you wait.

Edit: also, dont get me wrong i want to get married one day, but if i met a girl that didnt want to i'd still live with her mostlikly and stuff... being married isnt what i once was,.. to me it was the fatc that y6our saying "we will always be togather after this day" BUT these day all you have to do is sign some papers and your no longer married. so IMO it dont mean as much

[Saberstar]

Isn't this a free country. So this is a tree country that applies to all but gays? Ha, I find it funny.

And who exactly is this "no one else"?
Gays are human too. Even if they DO get married, what would happen? Nothing much, I would think not. Sure they might celebrate it but it would only last a week or so until all that crap is over.

[Laggy]

no.. if they got the rights you want them to have, everyone that doesnt want them to have it will go against the law, and i mean take it to court and try to get it changed back, then rather it does or not gays will fight back, and one way or another one side will fight back the wrong way, starting a war in our starts which hasnt been done in a long time, i see it happening


and this is in no way a free country...but thats for another thread.

[Saberstar]

When gay marriage is allowed. I highly doubt they'll take it to court and get it changed. Once the bill is passed, the citizen themselves can not change it just because they dislike it. Some might get pissed when they finally allow them to get married. But as time pass, most would just not give a damn about it.

[Laggy]

people are still racist, think it'll be that easy?,..

and us, as the poeple i mean, CAN take anything to court and try to get it changed or changed back, its yet another right we as the people have.
and dont think that just because a bill is passed means that it is over or final.

[Saberstar]

Well it wasn't easy for whites to just give up like that. Having to be treated equally and no more slavery. Thus the white themselves needs to work on their own. They've overcome that in time.
You must not know much how the system works. Ack then again, figures..

[Laggy]

in which i am guessing that your saying that people cant take a bill to court?.. its been done before. i dont think that the poeple doing it have ever won.. but it is somthing you can do if alot of people stand behind you...

[Saberstar]

Well then they can try all they like. But I see no use doing so. And it's a waste of time for them. I can do the same saying all who are homeschool should not get a diploma without being tested on by the Board of Education.

[Laggy]

homeschoolers are tested by the Board of Education dummy....

i had to take 16 tests and pass all of them to get a diploma, some of which goes through a college for tests and theres alot to it, if you know much about it 79% only get a GED and only the ones that take the boards testing + college testing gets the diploma

[Saberstar]

That would depend what test you are talking about. It sure doesn't seem like you have learn much from it.
So you're saying home school are no different then going to public school?

[Laggy]

that is what im saying, only you get out of school whenever your done with your work, some days i was still doing my work when others were out, and some days i was done by 1:00.

if this topic is what makes you think im dumb then you are a dumbass, because i only post what i think of it, and i have these rights

but i will say that for the most part it was me drinking and smoking weed for 4 years every day with no break then having to stop wioth no way of cutting down, it did mess with my smartness, but i am not dumb, i know alot more then most people on some things, so hers 2 things you can do, get back on topic and try to tell somthing new about the gay thing, or make a thread about how dumb laggy is, thats up to you

[Saberstar]

Oh this is on topic. If you don't want people thinking homeschooler are different then public schooler; then wouldn't gay people think the same? I'm sure they would want and get treated equally. It's common sense.
I don't think you're dumb, maybe dense. You don't think thoroughly before speaking.

[Laggy]

not all people think homeschoolers are different then public schoolers, only poeple that dont think its fair for someone not to have to go to a public school.. until' i came to EF and met you people i had never met anyone that thought it was a bad thing, and now i know maybe 4.
and this is because you guys dont know anything about it.

and for why i was home schooled, you have no rights to go into this with me, but you must remember that it isnt the kids who choose rather to be home schooled, its there mom and dads so why dont we get off this topic?..

being homeschooled and being gay in no way on the same page, but gay people bring ANYTHING up to try to make what they do right, and the more things you bring up, the more i think that is true

[Jeff]

I never really said that I hate gays people. I simply hate some of the things they are trying to do to society. The marriage thing is one big issue that I really don't want to see happen. True, I talk to one gay person ]from NFL World, but he doesn't talk about his life and I don't talk about mine, football is the only discussion. I could really care less about them, it's just that they're trying to throw their beliefs on the rest of society. I'm a hardcore, neo conservative, and I think the government should be moralistic, that's how the USA became the greatest country in the world, after all.

[Lancet Jades]

The US may have started out "moral" but even then, it wasnt really.

NO country, civilized or uncivilized, industrial or primitive, 1st world or 3rd world, are "moral". Prominent countries have their legal system, politicials, and a generau unwillingness of the people holding them back. Lesser countries have corruption from bigger countries stopping them.

[Zelphiel]

I don't think it even started that way. I think morality is one of those human ideals that will never be achieved.

[Lancet Jades]

I don't think it even started that way. I think morality is one of those human ideals that will never be achieved.
I think it can be, but only by the person alone. Within actual society, its impossible.

[Zelphiel]

yeah, I guess so. People are social animals, but at their worst when they're together. :rolleyes

[Kaffee]

Prejudice is prejudice, its a shame that some can't live a life that they are entitled to. And be who they are, those who are prejudice get a life to live, what makes them different?

[Tiffany]

hate is hate no matter what form it is...i don't like racist ppl or ppl that put down gays/bi's..or any other ppl who put ppl down for who they are

[Laggy]

hate is hate, yes.. but it still isnt the same thing, a race in no way can help it, to hate them is dumb, they didnt do anything and cant change it
gays can at least hide the fact that there gay, and also change, i have known gay people to go straight but i've never knwon a black guy turn white.... its just not the same thing

[Lancet Jades]

Well, a black guy could have an operation to make him look white...but i know what you're saying

[Laggy]

....had top be a smartass didnt you?...


anyway MJ is the only white black guy i know of lol

[Jeff]

hate is hate no matter what form it is...i don't like racist ppl or ppl that put down gays/bi's..or any other ppl who put ppl down for who they are

That term is labeled as a "social conservative" So, you don't like people against gay marriage or abortion? Well, I don't care for most people who are FOR these things. I don't let politics interfere with the way I interact with a person though.

[nightsavior]

i'm more or less a person that tries judging ppl by their actions. are they honest? compassionate? reliable? witty? interesting? to me these things matter more then if they're gay or a different color. i'd say its the same caw. either way its blaming a whole group for the actions of a few ppl from that group or hating them just because you don't understand them and therefore fear them. i mean i don't fully understand gays or ppl from other cultures...but to me that's not enough of a reason to dislike them.

[Brant]

They are very similar in my mind. Racism is prejudice against a group of people because of how they were born and I am inclined to believe that people are born gay/bi. I've read articles (http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/scotts/bulgarians/nih-nyt.html) about how it's genetic and therefore, it's pretty much on the same level in my mind.
I have also read articles (http://www.bidstrup.com/phobia.htm) about why homophobia exists. Even before I read any of these articles, I still believed pretty much the same thing.

[Gamerlen]

Wow... I can't believe this has gone on so long w/o me noticing... Anyway, I guess I'll toss in my two cents. Personally, I think anti-gay thoughts and racism are the same thing. *raises flame shields* I was born bisexual so I guess you might say I'm a bit biased on this but whatever. I've had tons of ppl come after me because of what I am and a lot of them seem to do it for religious reasons. Now, don't take this personally anyone, but it seems like a lot of them seem to forget that the Christian religion and the other branches of it (Catholicism, Baptism, Methodism) are not the only religions in the world. And even then is a handfull of passages from Levicticus (where the majority of anti-gay christian feelings come from) really overrule one, and in some cases several, of the ten commandments? (Love thy neighbor, thou shalt not kill, etc) I know I can't change someone's opinions just by what I say but I want ppl to at least think about what they are saying before condemning a group of people based on just one aspect of them. Yes I'm bisexual but thats not the entire me. I'm also a gamer, a writer, an artist, and an animal lover (especially fond of cats). But thats just me.
-Gamerzoomo and Mew =^_^=

[Sassafrass Raistimass]

The only Christians who can use Leviticus for anything at all are Messianic Jews. Anyone else who does so is regretfully misinformed.

"Love thy neighbor" is not a commandment. It is, however, a command from Jesus.

[Laggy]

The only Christians who can use Leviticus for anything at all are Messianic Jews. Anyone else who does so is regretfully misinformed.

"Love thy neighbor" is not a commandment. It is, however, a command from Jesus.
so those of us who beleive all of the bible, should just throw out the book of leviticus?

the bible aplies to all of us, not only jews.

and, also... if you think about it, and study it. there are only 9 commandments, the fi9rst is not a commandment, it is a fact.

and that is how things were writtin at that time, they state there fact and then give the rules.

Jesus did not command us to love our neighbor, if so he would have said "I command you to" he was only saying that it should be done

there will never be a time where 100% of everyone will agree on one thing, God knows that, and Jesus knew it then. so it is saying to do so when it can be done.

also, for those who say "I love you but I dont like you" that is a lie that some people say to get around that.

dont know why any of this needed to be said, really.. just thought I woukld bring it up

sorry for off-topic ness

[Sassafrass Raistimass]

so those of us who beleive all of the bible, should just throw out the book of leviticus?

the bible aplies to all of us, not only jews.Except Jesus goes against Leviticus and says it no longer applies. The general belief is that Leviticus kept man pure until the Messiah came to die for your sins... that fulfilled the covenant between God and man, and made Leviticus pretty much useless. If you're following Leviticus, I hope that means you sacrifice rams to the Lord everytime you sin, maintain a koshur diet, wear cloth made of only one material, have your boys circumsized exactly eight days after their birth, make your wife wait two months before being allowed to go to church after giving birth, give more sacrifices after said birth... get my point? The only people who follow these laws are Jews and Messianic Jews. If you do not follow each and every single one of them, you cannot criticize someone else for not doing so.

and, also... if you think about it, and study it. there are only 9 commandments, the fi9rst is not a commandment, it is a fact.A belief, actually. One Solomon went against, if I remember correctly.

Jesus did not command us to love our neighbor, if so he would have said "I command you to" he was only saying that it should be doneI hesitated to use the word 'command,' but it is the best word in this case. You only object to it because of its negative implications which it should not have.

there will never be a time where 100% of everyone will agree on one thing, God knows that, and Jesus knew it then. so it is saying to do so when it can be done.In that case, the commandments were not commands at all, since God knew no one could follow them unheedingly. Now I ask you: why should disagreeing with someone prevent you from loving them?

You're arguing semantics, unfortunately.

also, for those who say "I love you but I dont like you" that is a lie that some people say to get around that.Indeed.

dont know why any of this needed to be said, really.. just thought I woukld bring it up

sorry for off-topic nessBah... you can make the topic and alter its course as long you are still responding to the previous post. I'm hoping we don't have to deal with Nazi moderators here.

[Kayodic_Weazel]

hmm..... i think people who are racists or are homophobes are ...... stupid. i mean they're stupid if they are, and if they proclaim it, they're even more stupid. they're totallystupidpeople!!!! ok enough ranting.

[Dark Luther]

Reoxis made a very valid point, let's not get into the immense complexities of religion as much as looking at it from a scientific point of view.
The reference to religion and science is usually a split one, but my faith as a Lutheran is unchanged because we understand quite well that though god may not be flawed, those interpriting him have been many times.

Like the Vatican did in the past, it is again holding up against proven science in saying that homosexuals are not born that way - and can be changed ( the theory is that it's a choice ). This has not only been proven wrong long ago by psychologists who found the effect that causes homosexuality in most of nature, but even today there is further and further proof that homosexuality is common not only in humans, but in all of nature - something the vatican strongly denies exisits.

Truthfully, to me it's hypocritical that many persecute gays, as all they are guilty of is a sin in their religion - yet it is quite possible that those same people commit differant sins every day.

As a lutheran, there is nothing more I hate than someone who pushes their religion; and as such I have commited another sin, and as such I believe hatred towards another is truly the greater sin.

[Sassafrass Raistimass]

This has not only been proven wrong long ago by psychologists who found the effect that causes homosexuality in most of nature, but even today there is further and further proof that homosexuality is common not only in humans, but in all of nature - something the vatican strongly denies exisits. Actually, the official view of the Roman Catholic church is that while they accept scientific evidence stating that homosexuality is not a choice, it is still a sin to practice it. God has simply given these people slightly greater inclinations to this particular sin that they must overcome.

I'm not certain if I interpreted that right, but there ya go.

[Pinkie Pie]

*nods* that's right... I'm a former Catholic... and yes, that is the church's stance on homosexuality... it's not a sin to be gay... just a sin to act on it... something equally idiotic in my opinion...

As an example of how rediculous this is, consider the opposite... You, as a straight person (I'm addressing those who hold this belief of acting on homosexuality being sinful, btw) are told that it is a sin to act on your heterosexuality. It's a rediculous idea... basically it would mean that you could never be with a person of the opposite sex, both simply out of love and caring for that person and for sexual relationships...

I fail to see how acting on your desire to love and to be loved is sinful at all... IMO gender has so little to do with love... anyone can fall in love with any other person... there's the potential for it there. It's just that so many of us are conditioned by society to look down on those feelings, and to not even give them a chance to blossom...

*giggles* I think I'm starting to babble and get a little overly romantic here... I'll give it a rest for now...

[Sassafrass Raistimass]

*nods* that's right... I'm a former Catholic... and yes, that is the church's stance on homosexuality... it's not a sin to be gay... just a sin to act on it... something equally idiotic in my opinion...Heh... I'm a former Catholic, and I didn't even know this until a few months ago.

But "okay to be gay, just don't act on it" is not really exclusive to Catholicism (though they're the only ones it actually applies to). Many other evangelicals use the same argument as a simple cop out.

The House member who drafted the Marriage Protection Act, a bill designed to protect the "constitutionality" of DOMA, said "We are not discriminating against homosexuals. They can still get married... they will just have to marry men and women." [paraphrase] That is actually stupid. You could only discriminate against homosexuals in that sense if you denied them the right to have a heterosexual marriage... and since the only thing labeling you as a homosexual in the government's legal terms would be a committed relationship, not recognizing these relationships would mean that homosexuals would not exist in legal law, and thus there would be no one to discriminate against in the legal wording of a law... I'm rambling angry nonsensical nonarguments, however, so I'll stop now.

As an example of how rediculous this is, consider the opposite... You, as a straight person (I'm addressing those who hold this belief of acting on homosexuality being sinful, btw) are told that it is a sin to act on your heterosexuality. It's a rediculous idea... basically it would mean that you could never be with a person of the opposite sex, both simply out of love and caring for that person and for sexual relationships...www.religioust olerance.org/hom_rom.htm
These beliefs are grounded in their concept of natural law. The church once taught that the sole purpose of sex -- and marriage -- was procreation. They have modified this stance in recent decades by admitting that also has a unitive function; it bonds married couples closer together and strengthens their relationship. But, since the Church still regards the main purpose of sex to be procreation, they insist that any ethical sexual act must be open to conception. On this basis, they forbid the use of artificial methods of birth control, and consider any sexual behavior other than intercourse between a husband and wife to be a grave moral sin. Forbidden practices include masturbation, pre-marital sex, post-marital sex, extra-marital sex and all same-sex behaviors.I don't really have to be against it to know the arguments for it; I've heard them often enough. Generally, it's simply a "God says so," which is disputed by most disinterested theologians, however, and so it's a useless argument.

The most agreed upon argument is simply "it's unnatural." This generally spawns the response "we do many things that are unnatural: food, clothes, technology, etc." I've only seen one person counter this, with a nicely put "those things are the direct result of human intellect, and so are very much natural." He made some rather well-put arguments, actually, but I swear I felt like I was talking to a passive-agressive Hitler every time I saw him. Creepy.

It doesn't really matter what the arguments are; someone who believes homosexuality is wrong will always believe it is wrong, even if every single one of their arguments crash and burn. There are exceptions, of course, but it generally works like that on both sides.

[Day]

Im bisexual. I dont think I was born that way, but thats how I am now.
I go through alot of bullshit. I'm starting to think homophobia is a bigger problem than racism. Sure seems that way to me, but racism of course isnt as bad as it used to be.

[Brant]

Homosexuality is not a choice...

Exhibit A (http://www.bidstrup.com/phobia.htm)

Exhibit B (http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/scotts/bulgarians/nih-nyt.html)


Where's the scientific evidence saying it's a choice?


Because I truly believe that it is not something that one chooses, I believe that prejudice against gays (homophobia suggests a fear of them, which isn't always true) and racism is the same thing: it is the prejudice and descrimination against a person or a group of people because of something they were born with or something that is out of their control.


EDIT: I just noticed that I already posted a link to one of those sites in an earlier post that I don't remember making.

[Miles]

I haven't read much in here so I plan to read more after this...But...I think that hating gays is the same as being racist.
Everyone is born Bi and just because you choose to date someone of the opposite sex, doesn't mean you can't change your mind later on in life.
Some people make it sound so wrong...But look at this you LOVE someone of the same sex...Love is love no matter what form it takes.
So if you dislike gays then you have no right to fall in love.
Argue all you bloody like it's true! You're not just hating gays...To hate gays you must hate the fact that two men LOVE each other. There for, you do not like love. So you can't fall in love.
I'm right, don't argue.
Stuff like this makes me so mad! We're all people!
You can't say things like that are wrong! If you dislike other races and gays! Then why not people who do drugs? People who smoke? Who drink? You may as well be against it all!
As humans, we do what makes us happy!
NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO JUDGE SOMEONE ELSE!!!!!
Just cos a guy/girl likes someone of the same sex, it automatically makes them bad?
I know alot of gay guys and they're all really nice. I know a bunch of gay girls and they're really nice, too. I know people of different races, from different backgrouds...And all of them are nice people.
Judging someone upon the action of another is wrong and to be so bothered about what others do in there spare time is pretty pathetic.
If there are people so concerned about what others do with their lives, maybe you should consider getting a life of your own.

Also, how can you hate another race? It seems pretty impossible. There are many
races of people who all believe in different things, so I'm white...Do you hate me for being born with pale skin? For being born something I had no choice in? I didn't
tell my mother when I was inside "Oh, Mummy. I'd like to be white." I was born the
way I am because of my parents. Do you hate me for that?

I don't have time to talk more about this. It's not like anyone will read this anyways.
But HOW DARE YOU HATE SOMEONE FOR BEING THEMSELVES!
Should I hate you for being the way you are?
For doing what makes you happy?
You know that there are some who say boy and girl making love is wrong?
It works all ways...Maybe someone should try and get along with everyone.
Because we're all humans, we're all the same.
You hate gays...Hate me for being straight.
You hate other races...Hate me for being white.

Sorry if I offended anyone but this is here to hear others opinions and that was mine. Though being born bi is a fact, not a thought.

**Edit**
Sorry -.- I forgot to add that I think being racist and hating "gays" is the same thing. Oops o.o;;

[Wallie Wildo]

gah i seriously think anyone whos racist sexist or homophobic is an idiot you dont judge people by the group that theyre in only hate someone if they give you a reason like hate someone who rapes or muders or steals or something that affects people dont hate someone who has sex with the same sex as long as they dont try and have sex with you why should you care?hating a group of people is truely the ultimate stupidity judge someone based on their personality and what they do

lets say that theres a guy named john who rapes little boys

ok

and theres a guy named tony who has sex with willing grown men

which do you have the right to hate? take a guess

[Sassafrass Raistimass]

It's a totally different situation it's like saying i hate women or i hate men or in some cases i hate hetrosexuals it's totally different because the word rascism means 'To dislike a RACE' not a sexuality.
That means nothing. The question is not "are homophobes racist," but rather "are homophobes the same as racists." Those are fundamentally different questions.

[Dionne]

Well, I think they are the same thing, because they are both about hating someone for a totally stupid reason. TOTALLY! It blows my mind that people could actually hate someone because of their race or sexuallity. I mean, I'm Puerto Rican, you gonna hate me now? I'm not full blooded, so you would probably just think I'm out in the sun a lot (which never happens) and never know unless I tell you. So, what's the point? It's just the fact that someone is different. What's so wrong with that?