A new low

[Rainbow Dash]

(CNN) — Barack Obama’s campaign accused Hillary Clinton’s team Monday of circulating a photo of the Illinois senator donning traditional attire – clothing worn by area Muslims – as a goodwill gesture during an overseas trip.

In a statement, the Clinton campaign called the charge “an obvious and transparent attempt to distract” voters from serious issues – but did not issue a denial.

The picture, which appeared on the Drudge Report this morning, was attributed to sources within the Clinton campaign – although the Web site did not reveal how many, or who, might have received the photo.

In a statement, Obama’s campaign manager, David Plouffe, said Clinton’s campaign was engaged in “shameful, offensive fear-mongering,” though he did not point to any proof beyond the original item that appeared on Matt Drudge’s blog.

“This is part of a disturbing pattern that led her county chairs to resign in Iowa, her campaign chairman to resign in New Hampshire,” said Plouffe. “and it’s exactly the kind of divisive politics that turns away Americans of all parties and diminishes respect for America in the world."

Earlier this year, some Clinton volunteers left her campaign in those states after circulating e-mails that falsely claimed Barack Obama was a Muslim – an inaccurate rumor his campaign has worked hard to dispel — and suggesting that his drug use as a young man might make him vulnerable to Republican attacks were he to become the nominee.

Clinton’s campaign manager Maggie Williams responded to the photo controversy with a Monday morning statement that insisted the New York senator’s team “will not be distracted,” but did not directly address the substance of the allegation.

“Enough. If Barack Obama's campaign wants to suggest that a photo of him wearing traditional Somali clothing is divisive, they should be ashamed. Hillary Clinton has worn the traditional clothing of countries she has visited and had those photos published widely,” said Williams.

“This is nothing more than an obvious and transparent attempt to distract from the serious issues confronting our country today and to attempt to create the very divisions they claim to decry. We will not be distracted.”

On a campaign conference call with reporters, Ret. Major Gen. Scott Gration, who traveled to Africa with Obama, said the photo showed that “he did what any great leader should do — he accepted the gift, accepted the hospitality, accepted that token of friendship."

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2008/images/02/25/art.obamasom.ap.jpg

That's it. I'm voting republican if she somehow wins.

[Dark Marmosett]

Geeze. She really must be at wits end if she'd try to do something like this to try and gain leverage at this point of time huh?

[Jack The Ripper]

Stupid cunt. And Yvl, I agree with you. If Hillary somehow comes out on top at then end, you can bet that I am voting for McCain.

[Irving1992]

Ok, now someone needs to circulate some picture of her blowing some other politician for a favor.

[The Deity]

:hmm

In what context was this photograph distributed? I honestly don't see the big deal of the photo. In fact I think it should be considered god press for his campaign showing that he is willing to adapt and accept other cultures.

[Zelphiel]

all is fair in war I guess... =/

[Nickelback]

:hmm

In what context was this photograph distributed? I honestly don't see the big deal of the photo. In fact I think it should be considered god press for his campaign showing that he is willing to adapt and accept other cultures.
I didn't understand it, myself.

But what do we understand when politics get all crazy like this?

[Dark Luther]

You are aware this has not been completly confirmed or proven...
When stating or spreading news - one should really be careful before dealing out accusations and blame.

Also - funny how you didn't mention in a thread how the Obama campaign gave out pamphlets and flyers that included false information on Hillary concerning her positions and involvement in NAFTA.



And before you start thinking things - I will state that I actually support Obama for president;
but I don't think we should jump to conclusions in campaigns - as these are what spread rumors around in the first place...
Kinda like posting the picture itself in the forum....

[Rainbow Dash]

Also - funny how you didn't mention in a thread how the Obama campaign gave out pamphlets and flyers that included false information on Hillary concerning her positions and involvement in NAFTA.
I found out about that later, and was not overly fond of that. But that and this are two totally different levels, as that was misinformation about a related matter, and this is "shameful fearmongering."

Deity, the problem with this is that it appeared in the same way as the rumors about him being a muslim appeared. Anyone who knows anything about the Clinton family would know that she is desperate and shameless enough to circulate rumors about him being a muslim based out of fear for that religion.

[Kaffee]

I don't see what's the big deal, I'm not found of either of them, but I will say that I'm starting to lean Obama way, he's been saying some stuff that I like, but all of them say things and never do them.

[Rainbow Dash]

I don't see what's the big deal, I'm not found of either of them, but I will say that I'm starting to lean Obama way, he's been saying some stuff that I like, but all of them say things and never do them.
Obama feels that way too. He's not become corrupted by being in washington so long, so I do trust him.

[Kaffee]

I really do believe that we need a Black President, but that's not a reason to vote for him. And yes I realize that that's not politically correct, but I'm far from raicist. Its an issue here in the south mainly because everybody in the north still believes that we're a bunch raicists biggots. But things have changed so much from my youth. I like Obama because he doesn't talk down to people. He easy to understand and seems like the type of guy that would treat you like your an equal. I don't get that vibe from Hillary, I think she would snub me and talk down to me and she would assume that I'm an idiot.

[Applejack]

Obama has not won my support. At this stage, I doubt he can.

I don't see a huge "OMG, EVIL BITCH" problem that most seem to have with this photo, either.

[Rainbow Dash]

You dont find it evil that her campaign is spreading rumors of him being a muslim to play off peoples fears?

[Applejack]

You dont find it evil that her campaign is spreading rumors of him being a muslim to play off peoples fears?



Not at all. Evil is subjective.

[Rainbow Dash]

I don't follow. The only way to think otherwise is an EXTREME case of "the ends justify the means." What is evil if not lying to millions of people and cheating for your own profit?

[Applejack]

Like I said, I wouldn't call it evil. Is it right? No, not at all. But wrong does not mean evil. It's not a hard concept to grasp. Based on that pic, I don't see what's so darn evil about it. "SHE'S TELLING A LIE TO FEED HER OWN AMBITIONS! EEEEEEVILLLLLL!" No, to me that's not evil. It's more like a sandbox prank war where one party wants to appear high and mighty while the other side just laughs as it backfires.

It's not evil. Just plain stupid.

[Rainbow Dash]

I see what you're saying.

[Kaffee]

She still doesn't seem like the kind of person that would listen to a guy like me, I just don't seem imortant enough for her time. Obama on the other hand I feel would listen to what I have to say and not treat me like an idiot. I don't know why I feel that way, I just do, its a vibe thing I guess.

[Night]

This hasn't been proven to be her doing, so I wouldn't call her an evil bitch or cunt or whatever silly bullshit people love to rattle off about her.

[Rainbow Dash]

Even if it wasn't, I still could see her doing that. This made me realize just how little I trust her.

[king kuppy]

I think she's spread rumors about barack before in attempt to ruin his reputation, I wouldn't slide this past her.

[The Deity]

Even if it wasn't, I still could see her doing that. This made me realize just how little I trust her.

Do you only believe what you want to believe?

[Altima]

Politicians always try to find dirt on their competitors whether it be drug use, a bad military term, or bad decisions on key issues like war in other countries, taxes, etc. This wouldn't at all be unusual if she did indeed do it, however that hasn't been completely proven.

Although I believe that Obama will win the democratic nomination and probably the presidency as well I don't care either way as I want McCain to win it all in the end.

[Rainbow Dash]

Do you only believe what you want to believe?
Not at all. This just reaffirms my beliefs.

[Night]

She's fired people in her campaign who've been found doing dirt before.

She's running rather honestly, at least all her personal attacks have been made in his face.

[Irving1992]

She's fired people in her campaign who've been found doing dirt before.

It's called covering your own ass by firing the dumbasses who got caught, and then denying any association to their foulplay.

[Rainbow Dash]

She's fired people in her campaign who've been found doing dirt before.

She's running rather honestly, at least all her personal attacks have been made in his face.
You... really havent been paying attention, have you? To the whole thing? She's been lying her ass of the whole time, and more than anything, being hypocritical every chance she gets.

[Night]

It's called covering your own ass by firing the dumbasses who got caught, and then denying any association to their foulplay.
Is it cheating if you don't get caught?

You... really havent been paying attention, have you? To the whole thing? She's been lying her ass of the whole time, and more than anything, being hypocritical every chance she gets.Let's play a little game I like to call "hide the facts". It's the game where you come up with evidence to substantiate your claim.

And not only have I been following the race (since before Obama announced his candidacy), but I've been watching more than one news network as well, even Fox.

[Irving1992]

Is it cheating if you don't get caught?

Yes... yes it is.

[Night]

Yes... yes it is.
I'll assume you're not familiar with the colloquialism.

It's not cheating if you don't get caught. It never is.

What makes your word better than hers, anyway?

[Irving1992]

I'll assume you're not familiar with the colloquialism.

It's not cheating if you don't get caught. It never is.

I do know that saying actually, and I openly say that I really hate it.

If you murder someone and you don't get caught, it's still murder.
If you steal something and don't get caught, it's still thievery.
Why shouldn't it apply to cheating?

What makes your word better than hers, anyway?

Uh, I've never done any of the dirty, rotten acts that she and her family have commited.

[Night]

I do know that saying actually, and I openly say that I really hate it.No shit you know the saying. I was hoping to avoid arguing a commonly accepted saying, I underestimate how contrary you can be.

If you murder someone and you don't get caught, it's still murder.
If you steal something and don't get caught, it's still thievery.Prove it.

Uh, I've never done any of the dirty, rotten acts that she and her family have commited.Hmm... Am I to assume that she is now A) accountable for the acts of the people around or related to her? and B) that you can reference all of these "dirty, rotten acts"?

[Irving1992]

Prove it.

It's self-explanitory, I don't need to prove shit.

Hmm... Am I to assume that she is now A) accountable for the acts of the people around or related to her?

Why not? A lot of other people seem to agree with it.

B) that you can reference all of these "dirty, rotten acts"?

Most of them:

http://books.google.com/books?id=TB7LLC_YwZIC&dq=unlimited+access&pg=PP1&ots=dKfTtPgnfC&sig=DybtED-aT7ps4MSJlAWQkU2b4ho&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=unlimited+access&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title&cad=one-book-with-thumbnail#PPP1,M1

Link to a book called Unlimited Access. The words of a Secret Service agent who worked under the Clintons during Bill's time in office.

http://www.etherzone.com/body.html

A link to the list of people who mysteriously died who were somehow connected to the Clintons in someway.

[Rainbow Dash]

Prove it.
The proof lies on you to expalin what it is if not murder. Otherwise I could use your same tactic and ask you to prove that Clinton is NOT a lying cheating hypocrite.

And even if she hasnt been caught for bribery and such, she HAS been caught for racism, hypocrisy, and being a bitch in general.

Racism - Bill clinton (since voters think they're the same person Imma go by that assumption too) implying, though not saying outright, that Barack can't be trusted because he's black. I forget his exact words, but if you HAVe been keeping up with it I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

Hypocrisy - Texas debate last week. She criticized Obama for lifting "whole passages" (bullshit) from others, then proceeded to take 2 other speeches almost word for word from Bill and Edwards.

Being a bitch - She's come right out and said that people should vote for her because she's a woman. She's given speeches about women who hold her hand crying saying that they're so glad a woman is running for president. That's not what democracy is about. Any old lady with alzheimers pulled from a retirement home would do for president if that were the case.

http://www.etherzone.com/body.html

While alot of those are misleading, there are one or two of those that I have heard about elsewhere. They may be conspiracy theories, but considering how many sinister acts that go on in the government we never learn about, these situations arent unthinkable.

[Irving1992]

While alot of those are misleading, there are one or two of those that I have heard about elsewhere. They may be conspiracy theories, but considering how many sinister acts that go on in the government we never learn about, these situations arent unthinkable.

Okay, I see what you're saying and I totally respect it, I just personally find it odd that all these people died when Clinton was in office. It could be coincidence, it may not be.

[Night]

It's self-explanitory, I don't need to prove shit.The point is that you can't prove it's murder if nobody gets caught, just like you can't prove she's "cheated".

Why not? A lot of other people seem to agree with it. Are you really asking me why I don't just agree with what other people say?

http://books.google.com/books?id=TB7...mbnail#PPP1,M1

Link to a book called Unlimited Access. The words of a Secret Service agent who worked under the Clintons during Bill's time in office.

http://www.etherzone.com/body.html

A link to the list of people who mysteriously died who were somehow connected to the Clintons in someway.This was my fault. I should have mentioned that your references should be more than theory and sensationalism. How about actual news sources? And you people have the nerve to call Fox bullshit reporting.

And even if she hasnt been caught for bribery and such, she HAS been caught for racism, hypocrisy, and being a bitch in general.First of all, I wasn't aware that being caught "being a bitch" counts for anything at all when the fate of a nation is at stake.

There've been racist presidents under whom the country prospered, besides, cheating and holding ignorant beliefs are very different things.

And once again, being a hypocrite doesn't entail being a cheater. Most politicians are bound to be hypocritical at times, but they don't all disseminate misleading images of their competitors.

Racism - Bill clinton (since voters think they're the same person Imma go by that assumption too) implying, though not saying outright, that Barack can't be trusted because he's black. I forget his exact words, but if you HAVe been keeping up with it I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.Well I guess you adressed the issue that this didn't even come out of her mouth, but do you honestly believe Bill Clinton is a racist? Could his words be misinterpreted?

[Jack The Ripper]

The point is that you can't prove it's murder if nobody gets caught, just like you can't prove she's "cheated".

You can easily prove it's a murder based on the evidence. You just may not be able to prove who the murderer is.

[Rainbow Dash]

First of all, I wasn't aware that being caught "being a bitch" counts for anything at all when the fate of a nation is at stake.

There've been racist presidents under whom the country prospered, besides, cheating and holding ignorant beliefs are very different things.

And once again, being a hypocrite doesn't entail being a cheater. Most politicians are bound to be hypocritical at times, but they don't all disseminate misleading images of their competitors.
Being a bitch - she's running her campaign in a way that is harmful to the ideas of the nation. If she wins by these "merits" then it opens the door for a new batch of presidential candidates running just because they're women.

Racism - We're not voting for the 1808 presidential candidate. You see the effects of a president living in yesterday with our current administration.

Hypocrisy - If she cant even listen to her own advice, how the fuck is she going to listen to the nation's advice and needs? Not to mention how big of an issue this will be when it comes down to the general election.

[Night]

You can easily prove it's a murder based on the evidence. You just may not be able to prove who the murderer is.Not only is this wrong, but it relies heavily on specific circumstances, and you're picking at the analogy, not the actual point.

Being a bitch - she's running her campaign in a way that is harmful to the ideas of the nation. If she wins by these "merits" then it opens the door for a new batch of presidential candidates running just because they're women.

Racism - We're not voting for the 1808 presidential candidate. You see the effects of a president living in yesterday with our current administration.How exactly is president Bush "living in yesterday", and do you think that presidents stopped being racist in 1808?

Besides, in this case what we're talking about is personal racism, because she's never put forth or supported any racist legislation, neither has her husband.

Hypocrisy - If she cant even listen to her own advice, how the fuck is she going to listen to the nation's advice and needs? Not to mention how big of an issue this will be when it comes down to the general election.Bill Clinton supported both labor unions and NAFTA, yet the country prospered under him. Hypocrisy of words and hypocrisy of action are different.

[Rainbow Dash]

How exactly is president Bush "living in yesterday", and do you think that presidents stopped being racist in 1808?
1808 was just going back to a year ending in 8 when racism was the norm. And of course Bush is living in the past, though that's mostly due to his religous "beliefs." He doesnt seem to believe in science of any sort, even the humane kind.

Besides, in this case what we're talking about is personal racism, because she's never put forth or supported any racist legislation, neither has her husband.
Of course not. You can be racist without passing legislature against it, doing so would be political suicide in this day and age. It's a mark against her character, which is what we're debating here.

Bill Clinton supported both labor unions and NAFTA, yet the country prospered under him. Hypocrisy of words and hypocrisy of action are different.
Many exerts do believe that Clinton was the one who started this mess of an economy, and bush exacerbated it, but lets not get into that as its extremely speculative.

And I dont think anyone cares about hypocrisy in action - that's more supporting both sides in my eyes. Some may take issue with that, but I dont.
What I DO take issue with is that she says one thing then does another. Isnt that exactly what people hate the most about politics? When a candidate makes promises and doesnt go through with them? It's basically the same concept, as attacking someone over an issue basically means that you dont approve of it. Then f ou go around and do that action, you're breaking your own word.

[The Deity]

Many exerts do believe that Clinton was the one who started this mess of an economy, and bush exacerbated it, but lets not get into that as its extremely speculative.

I'm sorry, but I spent a few good minutes laughing at this. You think Bill Clinton's involvement in the economy is speculative to discuss and you bring five cent accusations against Hilary Clinton because well I don't even know why. Most of your sweeping claims seem to be aimed more at a husband she's surely only still married to for public reasons.

Mal has been completely right this entire thread. You seem to hate Hilary because you think Obama is Ghandi reincarnate. Just because she opposes Obama and has the audacity to run against him, it doesn't mean that everything bad about him that comes up derives from Ms. Clinton.

[Rainbow Dash]

I'm sorry, but I spent a few good minutes laughing at this. You think Bill Clinton's involvement in the economy is speculative to discuss and you bring five cent accusations against Hilary Clinton because well I don't even know why. Most of your sweeping claims seem to be aimed more at a husband she's surely only still married to for public reasons.

Mal has been completely right this entire thread. You seem to hate Hilary because you think Obama is Ghandi reincarnate. Just because she opposes Obama and has the audacity to run against him, it doesn't mean that everything bad about him that comes up derives from Ms. Clinton.
If I wanted to attack her husband, I would be using things like his red-faced rant against someone in the audience, or his actual support of NAFTA. But again, people seem to think they're the same person, so any attacks on him would reflect back on Hillary. But he's not the one calling Obama out on plagarism only to misuse two other quotes without citation later in the same debate, and he's not the one who puts nothing but women speaking in some of their ads, and he's not the one who ran the 3 AM phone call ad or the theoretical pic as mentioned earlier in this thread.

And don't be a fool. I've hated Hillary from day one, even back when I was supporting Edwards (which was for the sole reason of me not wanting that cunt in the white house.) Iowa changed my support when Obama won, and the more I learned about Obama from there made me more certain about my decision to support him.

[The Deity]

I'm anything but a Hilary supporter, but there is a fine line between generally disliking a politician and outright assuming everything negative that occurs during a campaign is his or her fault. Also, I've not seen a Hilary add with all women. Then again, I've only seen the Jack Nicholson one.

[Night]

Of course not. You can be racist without passing legislature against it, doing so would be political suicide in this day and age. It's a mark against her character, which is what we're debating here.We're debating whether or not she deliberately disseminated misleading photographs, actually.

[Rainbow Dash]

We're debating whether or not she deliberately disseminated misleading photographs, actually.
The whole point of which is that it's a massive blow against her character.

[The Deity]

The whole point of which is that it's a massive blow against her character.

Or could be if we know she did it. Which, for the record, we still don't.

[Rainbow Dash]

INdeed, by now in all honesty I cant say that she did with as much certainty as I did in the OP.