Presidential Campaign

[Dark Luther]

Who are you supporting for the next presidential campaign...?

Main candidates are:
Democrats - Obama / Hillary
Republicans - McCain / Giuliani

[Kurbee]

Obama.

He seems to know what he is doing/talking about.

and you just can't trust a name like Giuliani. :)

[Sassafrass Raistimass]

Ron Paul.

[Kaffee]

none of the above, that my vote.

[Dark Luther]

true - there are other candidates who are breaking out - thus point them out, and if possible describe them...


Ron Paul is a very interesting candidate - and makes great moves for what a conservative should be.
and serves a great model for what a politician should be...

Despite that - I disagree with his views on education, as it would create a cast system within our nation. More so than what we have now.

Also his somewhat hypocritical views on abortion and marriege - where he wishes the government out, but then opposes allowing gay marriege, and also wishes to stop abortion.
He may be pro-life - but he should stick to his views of none-government involvement.


I will say this - what he said about Iraq and 911 was very much true and he had guts...
When I read what Rudy replied to him -
I yelled out FUCK YOU - without a thought...


In truth - my opinion - he'd be a great reformer in congress, not a good president...

[Altima]

John McCain has been losing momentum and is now an underdog from what I saw on the news one day. I don't vote myself and never will so maybe this doesn't matter to me. No matter who is voted in they won't do everything that they say in their stupid speeches to gain people's trust and support, they never do.

I have alway saiod that if either Obama or Hillary win that a shitstorm would follow called an assassination by some redneck that doesn't want a black or woman president.

[Dark Marmosett]

I hate democrats so of course I'll be rooting for anyone thats either republican or 3rd party whoever seems better. Have yet to look more into 3rd party candidates though...

But with Hillary on the dems side. I would never want to see her in office. She just seems like she'd ruin a lot of things. I personally never liked Bill clinton. And wouldn't ever want another one even if its his wife and she may be different. Don't want to take a chance >.>

[The Deity]

McCain and the straight shot express. I think he is the most plausible candidate for the Republicans who can win the national election, and these democrats are not just liberal, they're insanely liberal...

[Whoop That Trick]

I hate democrats so of course I'll be rooting for anyone thats either republican or 3rd party whoever seems better. Have yet to look more into 3rd party candidates though...

But with Hillary on the dems side. I would never want to see her in office. She just seems like she'd ruin a lot of things. I personally never liked Bill clinton. And wouldn't ever want another one even if its his wife and she may be different. Don't want to take a chance >.>


No offense but thats a really moronic statement. "I hate Democrats."

Why don't you actually try listening to what the candidate has to say, rather then looking at what side they're on.

I'll be voting for Hillary, but wouldn't be upset if Giuliani or Ron Paul won, although I really oppose Ron Pauls views on same sex marriage, but his opposition on gay adoption is good.

Besides to say you hate Democrats... Christ, thats like me going, "The business of the Government is business." And then saying, "I hate republicans."

Or better yet, George W. Bush. I hate republicans. Grow up kid. Use your brain.

[Night]

In truth - my opinion - he'd be a great reformer in congress, not a good president... That's what I said.

I'd vote in Obama. Despite Kaoru's ridiculous nihilist beliefs that are probably spawned from laziness or a desire to be a rebel, Obama has been helping people since before he was an elected official, and we certainly do need a president who will care more for the lower classes.

John McCain started off as a man with some balls, who I wouldn't mind seeing in office, then all of a sudden he became a parrot. Where's the man who called the Bush administration out on Iraq?

I hate democrats so of course I'll be rooting for anyone thats either republican or 3rd party whoever seems better. Have yet to look more into 3rd party candidates though...

But with Hillary on the dems side. I would never want to see her in office. She just seems like she'd ruin a lot of things. I personally never liked Bill clinton. And wouldn't ever want another one even if its his wife and she may be different. Don't want to take a chance >.>Why exactly didn't you like Clinton?
What makes you think that Hillary is just like Bill?
She isn't even running on her husband's success, which, regardless of what you may think, his presidency was. If you cite the economy, all I need to say is:
-3 trillion dollars.

[Nickelback]

I don't often express my political views, but...

No offense but thats a really moronic statement. "I hate Democrats."

Why don't you actually try listening to what the candidate has to say, rather then looking at what side they're on.

Besides to say you hate Democrats... Christ, thats like me going, "The business of the Government is business." And then saying, "I hate republicans."

Or better yet, George W. Bush. I hate republicans. Grow up kid. Use your brain.

I fully support this whole quote 100%. That's how I intend to vote. As for now, I'm currently backing McCain. Although my family is rather short sighted and views anything republican as 'bad'. Although, I'm watching the Democratic side for anything I actually want to see. So far, I've not really seen anything major happening over there in the camp besides just anti-republican, rather than what their main goal actually is.

If anyone understands what I said, so help me god, they are a genius.

[Night]

Why do you support McCain?

[Whoop That Trick]

I don't often express my political views, but...



I fully support this whole quote 100%. That's how I intend to vote. As for now, I'm currently backing McCain. Although my family is rather short sighted and views anything republican as 'bad'. Although, I'm watching the Democratic side for anything I actually want to see. So far, I've not really seen anything major happening over there in the camp besides just anti-republican, rather than what their main goal actually is.

If anyone understands what I said, so help me god, they are a genius.

Word up Nigguh. I feel you.

[Nickelback]

Why do you support McCain?

Mainly because of his immigration policies and experience with legislation and poolitics in general. Whereas, apart from Giuliani, I don't see many candidates offering enough experience to claim the presidency. Experience with the world is usually my main force on picking a candidate, but it also helps that McCain is backing stem cell research, despite earlier opposition.

As for his foreign policy on the war, I would normally oppose him for not calling for a withdraw right away, but recently I've begun to see that withdrawing out of that hell zone may in fact make things worse for us in the long run, but a timetable should be issued for withdrawal sometime soon, because, essentially, it's a desert-style Vietnam. But apart from his war policy, I do support his campaign.

I have yet to agree with all of any of the candidate's campaigns on both sides. Perhaps that will change later down the road, but for now I'm watching.

[Dark Luther]

Wow, this forum has really matured in it's political views - and it's knowledge of the candidates...

I remember when I first came here there was a melee of fighting and a lot of mud being thrown, by the candidates and by people here repeating them...

The statements seem much more insightful than before....



Well, here's my observance of the candidates...


I dislike Hillary - not because I don't trust her - or because I disliked Bill ( I hated him while in office, and then after looked at it again and saw him as actually a really good compitent president, and to my chagrin, liked him ).
She is differant, and is the literal stereotypical politician...
and corrupt - her record shows a lot of this...

She also has bad political history, with only being in congress so long - and her time working medical healthcare while her husband was in office failed miserably and she showed incredible incompetance...

Thus because of this and many of her standings ( she truly is wish washy, which I hate to say because I hated hearing that about Kerry - cause he was not ).

I have trouble going into her good side - but it would lay in that she's defenitely an insider. She would have an easier time working with the democratic congress and negotiations with the republicans ( basicly by threat instead of diplomacy ).
She would be what Bush was to Democrats - except without the stupidity and add the arrogance...



Obama is interesting...
He's not very expirienced - but more so in reality than Hillary.
Though only in congress so long, his entire life he has been involved in politics and it's workings...
His entire life was spent seeing differant cultures and religions - and seeing all walks of life. Muslims in Africa, diverse Communities in Jakarta Indionesia, Rural and city life in the US...
He's shown to be one of the few candidates to have lived life as everything - a black male, a foreigner, poor, rich, white upper class..., muslim, christian, atheist...
During his first years - what he stated on the basis of politics was what many today think on the important issues of Iraq.
He's said to have predicted exactly what would happen...

He's very knowledged in international affairs - and if elected, would be perhaps the best candidate on those terms,
along with social reform:
Limiting welfare, reforming education, workforce reform, and foreign policy...

He's limited in political ability - and would have a lot of trouble working with the congress. He would almost find an easier outlet in foreign policy because of this - as many dislike the US government and would see him as an international reformer...





McCain...
.................sigh.....
I mean, I feel bad he has slipped this far...
I feel had he kept going, he would have beaten Bush - and our world would have been so differant today with him ending his presidency now...
Look - McCain is mistrusted by democrats for being republican - since he has shown more loyalty lately...
McCain is disliked by Republicans cause they see him as a wolf in sheeps clothing - and see him as really liberal...

He's not a liberal, he's more a true conservative than most pointing fingers...
He's not an evil republican - he's shown more cooperation with democrats than more of their colleagues...

I dislike that he tried to show more loyalty lately instead of his regular rogue persona, but I feel it was a failed move to simply "play" the game, something not in his element...
I actually felt sympathy for him...

This man has aided several causes I hold dear:
Primarily immigration reform..., and has kept going on it for quite some time without giving up...
He is specific in reforming the military and cutting wasteful spending - everywhere actually...
and in calming down out foreign policy with negotiation and slow diplomacy...

But as stated, he's dying in the political race...
He's simply not in his element..., and now is becoming old news...

Call me biased, but I don't have anything wrong to say about him..., I've followed this candidate for a decade now...,
I've seen if he did wrong..., and his errors weren't political..., just simply trying to make too many sides happy...

If elected - he'll fix immigration, fix corrupt spending that's been going on, work well in the foreign policy but slowly...
if anything - congress will be forced to finally cooperate...
that's his best area...




Giuliani...., is the favored candidate in my mind...
People have trouble with everyone else except with this lovable italian...
People will have trouble electing a black man ( maybe whites are too scared, but hispanics aren't ), or a woman ( not just a woman, but hillary - many dislike her simply for who she is ).
McCain is floundering - and the other republicans are simply too conservative - and come on... a mormon - never...

Giuliani fixed NY like no one could - and handled the 911 disasters like both a humanitarian, leader, and in the end a politician...

He's been a leader for years and has incredible expirience in that department - and more so than the others at least...
and despite his very very checkered past - he remains a very charismatic leader.

On the bad side - which few care to look as Giuliani smiles at them - he has no real understanding of foreign policy.
Not out of lack of expirience ( though that too ) but he has demonstrated this in the debates.
More than that he has no real understanding of the foreign world -
to make a point - he probably sees a similar picture to what Bush sees..., very narrowed and very simple...
He would probably put it off or let congress handle it, or worse ( like with bush ) handle it with his limited knowledge or let himself be controlled to lead the nation to certain points...

In the end...,
he'd be good to the country...,
he'd fix out potholes..., fix our economic problems at home...
but our foreign policy would just keep getting worse...

Remember - he fixed NY with a lot of money he got from the government...,
where's he gonna get it when he is the government...?

[Night]

McCain has changed views about the war most out of any candidate so far. He slammed it for being a desert vietnam, called for an immediate timetable, and questioned the administration's judgement. Then you stopped hearing about him, until he announced candidacy, and became a parrot about the war. Suddenly he preaches patience, it's damn near like he's a different person.

Hillary is a little corporate for me. She's got her hands in too many pockets.

Obama is the only person running who voted on the Iraq war and voted nay. His timetable strategy is solid, and he is certainly running as more than "anti-republican". Clearly a big selling point for all democrats is that they are not republican, seeing as how many people are dissatisfied with the current republican leadership, but to dismiss Obama as being simply "anti-republican" is wrong. While he has less congressional experience, I'd say he's more worldly than all of the other candidates.

[Sassafrass Raistimass]

Also his somewhat hypocritical views on abortion and marriege - where he wishes the government out, but then opposes allowing gay marriege, and also wishes to stop abortion.
He may be pro-life - but he should stick to his views of none-government involvement.He's personally pro-life, and he thinks all federal regulations protecting abortion (including Roe v. Wade) should be overturned, but beyond that he thinks it's a state issue. But really, if you think the government has the right to ban murder, and you think abortion is murder, then I'd hardly call banning abortion "hypocritical" anyway.

I haven't heard his views on gay marriage, but I could barely care less.

In truth - my opinion - he'd be a great reformer in congress, not a good president...And he can only do that with a bigger soapbox, since his fourteenth district seat in Texas won't really cut it.

John McCain started off as a man with some balls, who I wouldn't mind seeing in office, then all of a sudden he became a parrot. Where's the man who called the Bush administration out on Iraq?Yeah, it's not particularly surprising, but it's still disappointing.

Obama is the only person running who voted on the Iraq war and voted nay.Ron Paul. :-p

[Dave]

I'm with Raistlin here, Ron Paul is the way to go. His views on the media and government involvement sold me.

Obama would be my second choice.

[Dark Luther]

It's not that he needs a bigger soap box - because though he has some interesting and reasonable concepts, he also holds very extreme views on some things that simply would not work in reality and would just not be accepted by the government.

For one - his view of eliminating public education is entirely flawed as neither he nor yourself have addressed the argument that it would create a financial cast system within the youth.

He states that one simply has to look at public schools in black communities - and somehow this supports his views; when in reality when one takes it into consideration - with private schools do you really think efficient clean ones will spring up in black communities and open their doors for cheap to lower class families...

How about other low income families...?
What are they to do, just not send their children to school...?

There is already a system in which if a family wishes to send their child to private schools - they are given vouchers that cover all if not part of the tuition.

True he has moved more now towards giving power to the local and state governments - but this will simply create conflict as differant views come against each other.

Amongst them is prayer in school - which he voted for an amendment to allow...



Ron Paul is a good reformer because he's honest about his views and represents a specific people. He would not be a good president because he's very extreme with several views and the majority of the public would simply not accept them - and one can't blame him. Just because he's honest and right on some things doesn't mean all his other ideas are gold...



1. He completly supports freedom with firearms:
Which is good to a degree, but his record shows almost no restrain in liberties given. Most people believe that bans on specific fire arms is important - since you don't need an automatic rifle for protecting your home and for duck hunting - nor a .50 cal sniper rifle ( which he voted to maintain legal, and it has ).

There's liberty, and there's also security...
We're taking lighters and nail clippers from grandma because some arab tried to blow up his shoe;
yet a hick blows up a building in Oklahoma and we let them keep
their military grade weaponry...?
Come on...



Also - on the issue of immigration - he's to the highest extreme...
He has voted and inacted bills for the ending of birthright citizenship...
He opposes reforming the immigration system and simply wants to kick out illegals irregardless of condition, status, and social part in community...




Look - the guy has some good points - but if he were ever president, at best he would not be able to do anything since the congress would never go with his views...,
at worst he would change things to a very scary position where the US would literally go back to the 50s...
prayer in school, camps for mass deportation of immigrants, massive fences along the border, and economic/political isolation
from the international community including Mexico and Canada...


This guy isn't living in another generation, he's living in another century...

[Dave]

He completly supports freedom with firearms:
Which is good to a degree, but his record shows almost no restrain in liberties given. Most people believe that bans on specific fire arms is important - since you don't need an automatic rifle for protecting your home and for duck hunting - nor a .50 cal sniper rifle ( which he voted to maintain legal, and it has ).

The Bill of Rights includes the right to bear arms, not just specific small firearms. Am I saying that Joe Schmo needs a Panzershreck in his shoe closet? Absolutely not, but it's his Constitutional right to own one.

[Whoop That Trick]

The Bill of Rights includes the right to bear arms, not just specific small firearms. Am I saying that Joe Schmo needs a Panzershreck in his shoe closet? Absolutely not, but it's his Constitutional right to own one.

Right up until Joe Schmo kills your little brother.

I'm not too down with the right to bear arms. I mean its too late to change it, but fuck, had we not... the world would be very different.

[Night]

Ron Paul. :-pI was referring to the candidates named in the first post.

We have a right to bear arms, to a certain extent, but there's no reason you need an assault rifle.

[Dave]

Right up until Joe Schmo kills your little brother.

Well, Joe Schmo could kill my brother with a pair of scissors, too.

[Night]

People have been killing people since we needed to use our shit and some rocks to do it. That isn't the point. The point is that you don't need hollow points and an assault rifle to enjoy some time at the shooting range. It's a matter of streamlining the process of killing.

[Dave]

Shit, I'm not saying we can't amend the mothafucka. All I'm sayin' is, mothafucka wanna own a gun, he can, because a piece of paper says so.

[Night]

I support the right to bear arms, I'm just saying that it's unreasonable to sell certain arms, especially those not used for hunting or target shooting, or impractical for self defense.
Basically what I'm saying is, Rifles are okay, handguns are okay, assault weapons and rocket propelled missiles are not.

[Dave]

Well, I've never been in a gun store, but I don't think they have too many rocket launchers anyway.

[Night]

Thank you for analyzing my post, taking the least important phrase, and responding to it.

[Altima]

People have been killing people since we needed to use our shit and some rocks to do it. That isn't the point. The point is that you don't need hollow points and an assault rifle to enjoy some time at the shooting range. It's a matter of streamlining the process of killing.

As long as the guns stay at the shooting range and not on the streets tho this isn't a big deal. Some people like the thrill of being able to shoot so many bullets, so fast, and the kick from the gun and the sound.

[Dave]

Thank you for analyzing my post, taking the least important phrase, and responding to it.

Gee, thanks for adding to the conversation, jackass. I was saying that it's hard to obtain a rocket launcher in the first place.

[Night]

Gee, thanks for adding to the conversation, jackass. I was saying that it's hard to obtain a rocket launcher in the first place.Well that wasn't the point in the first place, dipshit. If the point of the conversation was to make rocket launchers harder to obtain, then you'd have a point. But since that isn't the case, shut the fuck up.

[Gamerlen]

I'M VOTING FOR BRUCE WAYNE! BATMAN IN 2008!!! O_O

Actually, either Hillary or Obama, though to be honest I'd like to see them on the same ticket. One for Prez and one for VP.

And also, ironically enough, I'm with Mal on the gun issue. A handgun, a rifle for hunting, and a tazer are one thing... but why on earth would you need an AK-47?

Last time I checked the muggers in the parks didn't drive German Tanks, and deer didn't wear body armor during hunting season.

I'm all for having a gun within reason, but there's no point in having a military grade weapon ready to unload a few hundred bullets into one of those durn kinds who won't keep offah mah lawn!

[Dave]

Well that wasn't the point in the first place, dipshit. If the point of the conversation was to make rocket launchers harder to obtain, then you'd have a point. But since that isn't the case, shut the fuck up.

You were trying to say that the purchase of heavy weaponry should be banned and I was stating that it was nearly impossible for the average U.S. citizen to obtain these guns anyway.

Whatever, dude. I can't vote in 2008 anyway, I'm not one to debate presidential campaigns.

[The Deity]

Gee, thanks for adding to the conversation, jackass. I was saying that it's hard to obtain a rocket launcher in the first place.

Please no trolling sir. Your response at best pointed out the obvious and hardly addressed anything substantial in his post. You deserved the response.

[Dark Luther]

Hm...
been gone a week and Raistlin failed to respond...
somewhat dissapointing, since it would have been interesting to discuss the candidate and others...

But if he doesn't wish to address my points - that's his choice...

[Night]

Yeah, discussion here has fizzled out.