No Religion?

[Zelphiel]

Would you prefer a world where religion didn't exist? I think we'd all be better off without it.

[Jeff]

Religion is a very beautiful thing. It teaches a lot of people to be peaceful, and gives them moralistic values to be better for mankind. Drug addicts and alcoholics have had their lives changed by religion. It gives people comfort and sometimes a reason to live.

[Zelphiel]

I do agree with that, it can be a very beautiful thing, but the negative effects of it almost outweigh that. Just think of all the religious wars (hell, there's one going on now), killing (like the spanish inquisition), and cultural boundaries and misunderstandings created by it.

[Gravity]

I think we'd all be better off without it.
Yup, same here. :thumb

[Lancet Jades]

Its a tough choice for me. I'm fairly religious, although not as uptight about it as some people. Its a good thing, but people take it too far often times. Wars start over it, and people end up hurting and killing each other over it.

I'd have to say we'd be better of without it, just for the reason that people will always end up abusing it, and using it for their own ends.

[White]

i think it should exist because it gives people peace in their mind to think that they're going to a good place when they die instead of just rotting in the ground

[Laggy]

im For Religion its needed...even people without it at somre point use it in one wya or the other...and hell..without it, i'd be out of a Job:(

[idgaf rpgfan]

As an athiest I say.......we need religion, without religion the morons of the world wouldn't have a set of moral codes (like the 10 commandments) to guide them in their day to day life and trying to explain the reasoning behind needing rules and laws would be wasted time, its just more efficient saying that god says so.

btw, I'm not saying that religious ppl are morons, I'm saying that religious ppl help keep the morons in check.

[Lancet Jades]

I agree, idgaf, but those same "morons" go out and kill each other in the name of their religion. And those morons would try and harm non-morons like us too. Thats why i say having no religion, but merely secular-based laws would better keep society in check. OF course, our secular-based system is also tutally fuxx0red, so thats isnt saying much...

[Wallie Wildo]

me thinks wed be alot better without it

[Aoi Asahina]

I am pro religion. I don't think I go on without knowing that is a higher being. I must have hope/faith in something.

[idgaf rpgfan]

But with religion, the stupidity is contained in an area or group, for example: the crusades, spanish inquisition, our invasion of Iraq, without religion the stupidity would be spread throught the world and chaos and anarchy would prevail. The proof of that is that there isn't a government that doesn't have church backing.

[Kaffee]

There wouldn't be as many wars if there were no religion. But on the other hand it would seem like there would be no hope. No afterlife, no light at the end of the tunnel. Death would be it, over, done. Is that the only reason to have religion? So that we don't have to fear death. For some its all about being comfortable in life and having something to believe in when you die.

[Lancet Jades]

But, look at the problems religion is causing. I mean, for all we know, some Islamic terrorists could try and nuke the US, and then we'd retaliate, initiating Armageddon. Whereas without religion, things like that wouldnt happen, at least not like thay are. The whole Cold War type stuff may, but religion wouldnt be a cause.

[Aoi Asahina]

If there was no religion there still would chaos. Shinto has no church backing

[idgaf rpgfan]

Without religion many wars would never have happened, but how many killings a day would happen for retaliation of petty slights and insults? Humanity needs the guidelines that religion creates to not self destruct.

[Lancet Jades]

But as kaffee pointed out, without an "Afterlife" to look forward to, people may be more cautious about going around murdering people

[idgaf rpgfan]

If there was no religion there still would chaos. Shinto has no church backing

If I'm correct, Shinto isn't a government.

[Chicken Little]

religion or no religion chaos is evident.
religion or no religion morons will be morons.
religion or no religion people will always have disagreements.

What this is ultimately saying is give them a reason to do so, and cause more, give them a reaosn to and cause sporadic violence, or give them no reason at all.

Personally, the church is corrupt. It has and does think it is above the law in its practices. It borders on invasion of countries in the form of 'missionaries', it caused tyrants to rule in autocracies with its backing. It caused some of the monstorsities, and monstrosities was done in its name. Yet in contrast, it helps individuals which need it most, it has general intentions for peace and it has caused some of the best people to be put into power.

However, the law is not religious, society is not religious. The individual is religious and its the individual which causes the problems. I would side towards getting rid of it ultimately, but not without having a secondary option.

[Zelphiel]

If there was no religion there still would chaos. Shinto has no church backing


what do you mean. Shinto has no Christian backing... Shinto isn't backed by itself... Shinto isn't part of the Japanese government??

I kinda lost you on that one...

[Lancet Jades]

I agree fly. Religion is something that should be an individual thing; a person's personal relationship woth "God". Having the church as an "institution" only leads tultimately to trouble, as those in charge, being the humans they are, get corrupted w/ power.

[Midnight]

For me religion is a very important part of my life. I don't go to church..but, do believe that there is a higher power among us. To each their own...I don't see the need for me to judge anyone for what or who they believe in. Everyone needs something to believe in...my belief is that there are Angels amoung us and a higher power watching over us. That is my comfort zone...:-)

[Rick_dowg2099]

i think there should be religion...im not scared of death and i still believe in god

[Vincent The Dark]

I am not against religion.....well i am...............religion to me in the bad causes it has created is just a manifestation of human hatred towards one another. Religion, at its most helpful and beautiful points is not even the same ideology as when it is used for evil or wrongdoing. To me religon is different than religion depending on the use of the word. so i guess i can't be against it or for it............without it something else would take its place. nationality and ethnicity would gain the same importance as religion in the minds of those who use religion as a vehicle to enact their insanity and cruelty.

[nightsavior]

well even without religion humans would still come up with excuses to hate each other whether it be politics,racism,ethics,or simple greed and jealousy.

[Brant]

Religion does give people something to hope for and helps them lead better lives, but religion is also responsible for persecution of those who don't share the same views.
I am against organized religion as I have a problem with people telling me what I am to believe. I think that people should search for the answers to their questions themselves and not have the "answers" crammed down their throat, because I believe that the person will become more enlightened in the end.

[sephiroth4eva]

i really dont have a preference for relegion.. i used to be christin.... but then almost 6 years ago i become athiest... and now after reading a lot into religion.. i have become "budist" .... im not hard core or anything... but its better then all the other " stable" religions... and there are many theories of mine... and most of them make since....

on that note.. has anybody read the Da Vinchi Code?

[Zelphiel]

well... buddhism really isn't a 'religion' in the sense that others are. It's just a system of philosophical ethics.

btw... which branch of Buddhism do you practice?

[The Deity]

Without religion the chaos would be overwhelming.

[sephiroth4eva]

not nesesarilly... but i dont really worship any of the gods that budddism has.... and i know that buddism really isnt a religion... its more like a moral beliefe.. well ... at least for me. i believe in all the fundemental parts of budism...

[Lancet Jades]

Sephy has a point, just because you don't follow a religion doesn't mean you can't adopt the moral and philisophical beliefs of it...

[Setzophone]

well, even though i'm religous, i think we need it because it gives ppl a sense of purpose. I mean, it gives you a reason and explination for many things.

[sephiroth4eva]

lol. dam strait im right.... lol... but i guess all that i really care about is that i have morals and most pplz that i know dont have any at all... witch i guess kinda makes me the better person... but i still think that all pplz should do what the believe in... not what the " public " says that they should do or believe in. and personally... buddism's moral's are better then any that i have read about... and there is no one book that u have to read like the bible... and no offence to all those christins out there... i believe that christianity is a bunch of C R A P!

[Pinkie Pie]

I personally don't believe in organized religion. It causes too much hate, too much closed-mindedness... Too many wars have been started over it... The negatives far outweigh the positives.

The positives of it, moral values, faith in something greater, etc, can be achieved without actually belonging to a religion. You can have your own set of beliefs and follow a set of moral standards without belonging to a religion...

Also, I don't believe that the world would plunge into choas without religion. Without morals or beliefs, then possibly it might, but religion doesn't have an exclusive monopoly on those concepts. Government does not need religion to back it up, and would actually be a more free concept without it.

[Stormtrooper]

sometimes a religion might give you hope, no matter what religion it is

[Pinkie Pie]

Yes, but it's not the only source of hope in existance. Also, most religions are based on fear. Instead of "Act such and such way because it's th right thing to do", they preach, "Act such and such way, or else you'll go to hell", or something similar. It's a method of control and conformity.

Also, not having religion doesn't equate to not having beliefs. you can still believe in heaven or reincarnation without actually belonging to a religion.

[Spartan God]

i dont really know, i believe so long as you dont do anything too bad life you'll be fine. I dont believe a lot of things in the bible but i still have faith...

[Kayodic_Weazel]

i agree with the other 10 people who voted against it. just too much fuxxory shiz gets done because of religion. Almost every war in the history of man was because of religion. and as the guys in tool say:
"Religion lets a person stop thinking and start using someone else's thought. A nonthinking mind is clinically dead"

[Seraph Zero]

"Religion is the opiate of the masses."- Karl Marx

[Brant]

Religion is a double-edged sword. On one hand, religion gives some people hope and a reason to live and live a good life, but on the other hand, religion has also served as an excuse to kill and descriminate against others.

As for me, I do not believe in organized religion as I believe people who find the answers they believe in and not have them handed to them, but, to each his own.

[Stormtrooper]

i agree with sparty, if u live a good life, then there is no reason that you should go to hell or anythin

[Lycanthroat]

Agree with Longinus - religion is pointless. If there was no religion, the world would be a better place.

[Altima]

Without religion there would be far less war and conflict.Thats why a lot of people fight like over in Israel and Palestine.That and for the West Bank and who it belongs to but mostly religion.Land belongs to all not just 1 type of people.Of course religion is handy as people do need something to beleive in.Thats why i kinda think that god didn't create us but that we created god or that there is a god but not one like we think of today.The 1 we know of is not completely how the real thing is.He could just be an entity of the universe or something or of 4d space (too much SO TTEOT).Of course I like Science and the big bang theory so maybe thats why i don't beleive in a god completely,but I don't completely don't believe.This way if there isn't a god and I just get put in a coffin and then put in the dirt and the worms eat me i won't be too upset if nothing happens.Altima < its there this time.heh

[sephiroth4eva]

blah... all that is rambaling.... "god" was created by a politian to control the pplz. Isreal and Palestine are being fought over b/c in biblical times (back in the day), sombody lied to make sure that they would get the land and they did .... wouldnt u be pissed?

but the whole politian thing..... back then, if sombody said that hey were the "messenger of god" ... most pplz believed them... so they wrote that if u follow the law of man, u are fufilling the law of god... so... pplz obey'd...

[Sassafrass Raistimass]

How interesting.
blah... all that is rambaling.... "god" was created by a politian to control the pplz.Here you say that God was created by a politician, but...
but the whole politian thing..... back then, if sombody said that hey were the "messenger of god" ... most pplz believed them... so they wrote that if u follow the law of man, u are fufilling the law of god... so... pplz obey'd......here you say the politician claimed to be a messenger of God. In order for the people to believe that, they would have already believed in God.

Let's try not spouting ill-conceived theories as absolute fact, mmk?

[sephiroth4eva]

umm.. its not ill conceived slick.... ive debated this many times.... and pplz dont have to believe in god to believe in a messenger.... eveyrbody has their own beliefs.... and back then all pplz already thought that Jesus was the son of "god" ..... and the pplz of the "church" made jesus out to be more then a man ..... but he wasnt.....

[Sassafrass Raistimass]

umm.. its not ill conceived slick.......just because you say it, doesn't make it so.

ive debated this many times....As have I, but that doesn't make you or me any more right because of it. I think the argument should speak for itself, not the experience.

and pplz dont have to believe in god to believe in a messenger....To believe in a messenger of God, yes, they have to believe in a God.

eveyrbody has their own beliefs.... and back then all pplz already thought that Jesus was the son of "god" ..... and the pplz of the "church" made jesus out to be more then a man ..... but he wasnt........we're speaking of Jesus? You mean, politicians "created" God... thousands of years after the concept of God came into existence? Care to explain that one, "slick?"

I'm glad you have all the "inside info" on early church fathers while the rest of us are sitting here in the dark.

[Kayodic_Weazel]

i heard today that the Vatican has a bunch of parts that they cut out of the Bible cause it made Jesus look bad....... im still against religion.

[Chicken Little]

Without religion there would be far less war and conflict.Thats why a lot of people fight like over in Israel and Palestine.That and for the West Bank and who it belongs to but mostly religion.Land belongs to all not just 1 type of people.Of course religion is handy as people do need something to beleive in.Thats why i kinda think that god didn't create us but that we created god or that there is a god but not one like we think of today.The 1 we know of is not completely how the real thing is.He could just be an entity of the universe or something or of 4d space (too much SO TTEOT).Of course I like Science and the big bang theory so maybe thats why i don't beleive in a god completely,but I don't completely don't believe.This way if there isn't a god and I just get put in a coffin and then put in the dirt and the worms eat me i won't be too upset if nothing happens.Altima < its there this time.heh

the big bang theory has been disputed and somewhat debunked into a series of bangs which created the universe due to there having to be a chain reacion and catalyst that needed to be formed for the reaction and spread as faras it did. I forget the entire theory but there was a whole debate thing as most ppl liked the multiple bangs instead of the 1 big bang.

[Sassafrass Raistimass]

i heard today that the Vatican has a bunch of parts that they cut out of the Bible cause it made Jesus look badThat's misleading. The Bible is only a collection of books that were used throughout the Mediterranean a century after His death... the early church fathers just decided which books got put in and which didn't. The supposed "lost gospels" were just not considered inspired by God. Some of them cast Him in a bad light, yes (the gospel of "Doubting Thomas," if I remember correctly, had a child Jesus curse anyone who didn't do what He wanted), but these books, it was decided, were simply damaged goods. It was early enough in church history for it not to be considered controversial.

[Chicken Little]

That's misleading. The Bible is only a collection of books that were used throughout the Mediterranean a century after His death... the early church fathers just decided which books got put in and which didn't. The supposed "lost gospels" were just not considered inspired by God. Some of them cast Him in a bad light, yes (the gospel of "Doubting Thomas," if I remember correctly, had a child Jesus curse anyone who didn't do what He wanted), but these books, it was decided, were simply damaged goods. It was early enough in church history for it not to be considered controversial.

For the followers, cuz after all who would wanna worship a bullshit artist named Achmed Saeed Hassan Mohammid aka Jebus in todays time?

[Pinkie Pie]

It was early enough in church history for it not to be considered controversial.


It doesn't really matter whether or not it was considered controversial then or not. It apparently also wasn't controvercial then the crucify people, but today that is considered cruel and unusual punishment.

The fact is that the church picked out the writings that made Jesus look perfect... Obviously, the truth of the situation was not nearly as important to them as was making Jesus out to be "The Son of God". A good deal of the myth of Jesus borrowed parts of pagan myths for it's story, as well. Some of the key elements of the story of Jesus' death and rebirth are ripped straight out of the myth of Attis.

[Sassafrass Raistimass]

It doesn't really matter whether or not it was considered controversial then or not.I was referring to now. It should not be considered controversial now, but it seems people latch onto whatever they can to try and derail Christianity.

The fact is that the church picked out the writings that made Jesus look perfect... Obviously, the truth of the situation was not nearly as important to them as was making Jesus out to be "The Son of God".The fact is, any Joe Schmo of the time could write a book about Jesus, put it into circulation, and have it gain immense popularity in the Church. These people didn't have to know Jesus, know people who knew Jesus, or know people who knew people who knew Jesus. It was the Church's job to sift through the crap and decide which books were "inspired" and which were not.

[Chicken Little]

I was referring to now. It should not be considered controversial now, but it seems people latch onto whatever they can to try and derail Christianity.

The fact is, any Joe Schmo of the time could write a book about Jesus, put it into circulation, and have it gain immense popularity in the Church. These people didn't have to know Jesus, know people who knew Jesus, or know people who knew people who knew Jesus. It was the Church's job to sift through the crap and decide which books were "inspired" and which were not.

Is there definitive proof of those who had their stories published by the church were close to Jesus? I dont think ive heard of any, only 'they had the last supper, they had to be, FEAR ME!' Thats like walking up to two people asking for an opinion of yourself then when one blows you off and another says fine, your gonna elaborate on the peron who gave a reply, that doesnt neccessarily mean they know me, but who can prove it in that time?

[Sassafrass Raistimass]

Is there definitive proof of those who had their stories published by the church were close to Jesus?There's evidence to the contrary, actually, but by Church doctrine it shouldn't much matter. What's important is that they're "inspired by God." The Gospels originally attributed to the apostles Matthew and John were considered inspired, while the gospel of Doubting Thomas was not.

[Pinkie Pie]

I find it a bit interesting that the ones that put Jesus in a positive and perfect light are the ones that the church decided were "inspired by God"...

:hmm

[Sassafrass Raistimass]

I find it a bit interesting that the ones that put Jesus in a positive and perfect light are the ones that the church decided were "inspired by God"...

:hmmActually, it's just the ones that told the same story.

Even if not, why wouldn't they? By the very definition of the Church, wouldn't those actually be the ones inspired by God? They weren't following a devil-worshipper, they were following the Son of God. Wouldn't He have been perfection personified? So, assuming the religion is right, wouldn't the books that made Him perfect actually be the books that were inspired by God?

It honestly just comes down to whether or not you believe in Christianity. If you do, the argument fits, and if you don't, then you really have no counter argument other than "I believe otherwise."

[Chicken Little]

both side shave no argument other then 'its our beliefs' because both sides believe theyre right.

You have the church who claim to follow the son of god and god itself, after it popped up and 'debunked' older religions in Greece and Rome before spreading (like a plague) They then claim to have documents and stories and whatever else dated to before it even showed up as a dominan religion, theyve found the 'shroud of jesus' but none of the events or stories can be proven false or true so thus you have 2 sides to the one debate with no evident or possible outcome except future debating.

[Pinkie Pie]

I agree... you really can't get anywhere with this. No matter what argument is brought up, it will get dismissed as being just "something they believe and can't prove".

I can't prove beyond a certain point that the church omitted any credible acounts of Jesus being anything other than the Son of God. However, at the same time, RM can't prove that they did not.

[Sassafrass Raistimass]

However, at the same time, RM can't prove that they did not.Maybe because it's impossible to prove a nonexistance? The burden of proof is on you, sweetie.

[Pinkie Pie]

Simply because "the majority" believes in Christianity does not mean that you're exempt from showing proof...

Basically, it sounds to me like your saying "If you can't prove that they did it, then they didn't". Well, the opposite can also be said.

The majority of my argument stems from both the possibility that they could have omitted accounts of Jesus that viewed him in a negative light, or simply a light in which he's not seen as a deity, paired with the fact that, as they've already borrowed from pagan myth to write the myth of Jesus, it is probable that they would continue this trend. Several of the key images and points of Jesus' death and rebirth show remarkable similarities to the myth of Attis. If they used pagan works to inspire the writings of the New Testament, who's to say that they couldn't (and wouldn't) further alter the story to make it seem as if there was no other possibility than that Jesus was the Son of God?

Once again, however, the argument that "this is just X person's beliefs" can come into play and nullify all argument on either side, which is why this kind of debate usually goes nowhere.

[Sassafrass Raistimass]

Simply because "the majority" believes in Christianity does not mean that you're exempt from showing proof...Never claimed it did, but the burden of proof is still on you. I cannot provide proof that purple faeries don't exist, but I'm going to assume that they don't until you show me proof that they do.
Basically, it sounds to me like your saying "If you can't prove that they did it, then they didn't". Well, the opposite can also be said.No, I'm saying "If you can't prove that they did it, then we'll assume that they didn't." Much different.
Once again, however, the argument that "this is just X person's beliefs" can come into play and nullify all argument on either side, which is why this kind of debate usually goes nowhere.A belief still has to have a logical basis. The belief defense only works if the belief doesn't contradict itself... which happens more often than you might think.

I'm rather amused that you're using Attis; most in your position would prefer Krishna.

[Pinkie Pie]

To be honest, I'm not familiar with Krishna, whereas I am with Attis. I'll have to look up that myth.

[Gamerlen]

*reads the posts* @_@
And ppl wonder why I don't bother with religion... Waaaaaaay too confusing...

=^_^= <- I liked ancient egyptian religion. I would've been a god!

-Mistresszoomo and Mew =^_^=

[Altima]

the big bang theory has been disputed and somewhat debunked into a series of bangs which created the universe due to there having to be a chain reacion and catalyst that needed to be formed for the reaction and spread as faras it did. I forget the entire theory but there was a whole debate thing as most ppl liked the multiple bangs instead of the 1 big bang.

Yeah the big bang theory makes sense in the creating of stars,planets,solor systems,etc.It can't explain how a ,man was created by a bang or a tree.I don't like to beleive in fate because as Neo said in the Matrix "I don't like that im not in control of my own life"What if we are all bound by fate?Who we marry/divorce.What we do,how much money we make,how many kids we have,etc,etc.I don't like that(unless i become ahuge million/billionaire with a really hot wife and sh*t)then I probably wouldn't mind being bound but fate but everything else I would hate to be bound by fate.I don't want to be bound to the crap I currently have(Jacksh*t).Altima

[Pinkie Pie]

The Big Bang (or bangs) theory doesn't say that humankind or plant life were created instantaniously, it's referring instead to the creation of what would become the universe that we know today. Life on the planets that were created from the result of the bang(s) didn't show up until much later, according to the theory.

[Altima]

yeah but we got here somehow.Was it a god,A mystical being,Luther the Creator(SO),or another bang or what?I think we just got here somehow I don't know how.The idea of a all powerful being is kinda scary(especially if i'm a big time sinner)i'll get up to the front of the line and heaven and Jesus will check his chart info about me and go hmm mmm yeah yep ok thats good huh hey wait a minute spent a lot of his time posting on EF Thats a sin against Humanity I post at another forum not EF to hell you go rofl.Altima

Jesus has big muscles if hes real I bet with all the time he has he has to have something to do.He is drawn that way in 1 of Michelangelo or Donatello's paintings.

[Chicken Little]

Yeah the big bang theory makes sense in the creating of stars,planets,solor systems,etc.It can't explain how a ,man was created by a bang or a tree.I don't like to beleive in fate because as Neo said in the Matrix "I don't like that im not in control of my own life"What if we are all bound by fate?Who we marry/divorce.What we do,how much money we make,how many kids we have,etc,etc.I don't like that(unless i become ahuge million/billionaire with a really hot wife and sh*t)then I probably wouldn't mind being bound but fate but everything else I would hate to be bound by fate.I don't want to be bound to the crap I currently have(Jacksh*t).Altima

well the big bang was said to be caused by colliding atoms, and since all matter is inherently made of atoms it would then lead to the creation of creatures and a nucleus which supports life after the planet has an atmosphere to support it. Some religions would then claim that thats all hog wash and replace it with some omnipotent being who just created shit cuz they could.

Thats what i never got, its been proven that dinosaurs walked the earth right and lotsa snazzy shit happened before mankind even existed, then why does the bible only start at a certai point in human evolution if not made by humans to explain somethign they couldnt grasp at the time? There is no 'Old testament: God made some funky lizards today and let them dominate for a few million years before fucking them up cuz he was bored.'

The bible is as old as humans are and is therefore a human creation, much like early religion in scandinavia, greece, egypt and rome who converted to christianity had earlier religions to explain things. It would seem that Christianity starts at 1 point and ignores everything before it.

[Pinkie Pie]

Exactly, the creation of life happened gradually, not all at once, as it just doesn't make sense. It wasn't a bang that did it, or some god or goddess snapping their fingers. The big bang(s) theory is describing how the universe was set in motion, and from that, complex life forms eventually surfaced. The pieces were all there at the start, the right conditions for them just had to be met.

[Altima]

The bible starts when humans do because that is our first memory of things.Dinosaurs couldn't write so they couldn't make a bible.Humans don't know how anything really lived or whate they believed in before we came to be on this planet.Maybe we weren't created we merely came here from another planet and the knowledge was lsot over the many millions of years.I mean I love watching sh*t on U.F.O.s and they have to be something I mean they look like UFO's.If there is life on this planet then there must be life somewhere else maybe not in this solar system but far away.They just have like super great technology and super fast hyper-space vehicles like futurama type stuff or something.The bible was created by man and is constantly broken by man everyday.We don't follow what it says day after day after day.So why do we even have 1?When it may all be just a lie?I mean hope is good and something to believe in but people wouldn't like it if it all turned out to be something the first pope ever just wrote up so you would worship him.Remember in the old days the Pope was like a King and a king would never go against the pope(because he thought he was equal to god).It isn't like that now tho.There should just be no religion or just 1 religion not many different kinds of how things came to be the way they are.Altima

[Pinkie Pie]

Ok... trying to scavenge the points out of that...

The bible says that the Earth was created in 6 days, man being created on the last day, and God resting on the 7th. The bible's argument then is that Mankind started almost immediately after the Earth's creation.

Granted, this is a very fundimentalist arguement, and not all who follow the bible believe it.

But anyways... um... skipping the irrelevant UFO comment...

Coming to the bible itself now... for once, I agree with you. It was written for mankind, by men, not by God. Therefore, it is not only possible but logical (depending on your views of the nature of mankind) that it would be misused in the writings of it.

I don't think that there should only be 1 religion, however. There either needs to be none at all, or many different ones. Simply having one religion forces everyone into a single way of thinking.

[Chicken Little]

Ok... trying to scavenge the points out of that...

The bible says that the Earth was created in 6 days, man being created on the last day, and God resting on the 7th. The bible's argument then is that Mankind started almost immediately after the Earth's creation.

Granted, this is a very fundimentalist arguement, and not all who follow the bible believe it.

But anyways... um... skipping the irrelevant UFO comment...

Coming to the bible itself now... for once, I agree with you. It was written for mankind, by men, not by God. Therefore, it is not only possible but logical (depending on your views of the nature of mankind) that it would be misused in the writings of it.

I don't think that there should only be 1 religion, however. There either needs to be none at all, or many different ones. Simply having one religion forces everyone into a single way of thinking.


and breads fanaticism in its finest hour.

[sephiroth4eva]

lol.. yea.... the dinasaurs.. lol.... i loveit when church pplz say that they dint really exist and that the bones are fake.. lol...

but yea... the whole.. lots of religions is a good plan.... since that is what is going on now... but i think that pplz shouldnt put everything into a religion... like.... dont having health care b/c god will save them .. lol..
but i htink that pplz should just have beliefs.... like... buddism... if u dont go into the whole many god thing that they have going, all the religion is, is a way of life... not a religion.... thats what i am... the main purpose of biddism is to better one's self... which makes more since then christianity which says that if u repend and do the will of god u might make it to heven...

[Lancet Jades]

lol.. yea.... the dinasaurs.. lol.... i loveit when church pplz say that they dint really exist and that the bones are fake.. lol...

but yea... the whole.. lots of religions is a good plan.... since that is what is going on now... but i think that pplz shouldnt put everything into a religion... like.... dont having health care b/c god will save them .. lol..
but i htink that pplz should just have beliefs.... like... buddism... if u dont go into the whole many god thing that they have going, all the religion is, is a way of life... not a religion.... thats what i am... the main purpose of biddism is to better one's self... which makes more since then christianity which says that if u repend and do the will of god u might make it to heven...
Ummm...Buddhism DOESN'T have a "many god" thing. You must be thinking of Hinduism. Buddhism is a religion devoid of any supernatural beings.

[sephiroth4eva]

umm.. lol..yea... thats what i ment... lol... dont know where my mind was....

[Lancet Jades]

But isn't the origin of religion based on where we come, how we were created?
Merriam-Webster defines religion as "the service and worship of God or the supernatural, or the commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance", "a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices", or "a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith"

Of those, only the first one would actually rule out Buddhism as a religion. Although Buddhism preaches a religion devoid of the supernatural, as well as religious authority, its considered a religion because it preaches beyond just a philosophy. It preaches how to find enlightenment, or "Nirvana" as extinguishing the finite boundries of your body and mind (Nirvana means 'to extinguish'), and it uses a moral code (The Eightfold Path, which is pretty similar to the Ten Commandments, actually), among other things, as the guidelines for achieving Nirvana. The differnece is that instead of a god dealing divine judgment to sinners, instead Buddhism teaches that by not following the Eightfold Path, that the person thusly denies themselves Nirvana.

In conclusion, Buddhism IS a religion, although in a looser sense than most people are probly used to.

[Rainbow Dash]

I am a bit of an athiest myself, but just in case there IS a god, I hate him.

Religon... to me is outdated. Or at least all the generic religons we currently have are. If there were only one religon, one that was not as overbearing as Christianity, self-contradicting as Islam, unbeliveable as Judiasm, confusing as Buddhism, or just weird as Hinduism.... I'd believe in that.

[Lancet Jades]

I am a bit of an athiest myself, but just in case there IS a god, I hate him.

Religon... to me is outdated. Or at least all the generic religons we currently have are. If there were only one religon, one that was not as overbearing as Christianity, self-contradicting as Islam, unbeliveable as Judiasm, confusing as Buddhism, or just weird as Hinduism.... I'd believe in that.
Why do you hate God? Care to give any reasons?

[Lycanthroat]

I am a bit of an athiest myself, but just in case there IS a god, I hate him.

Religon... to me is outdated. Or at least all the generic religons we currently have are. If there were only one religon, one that was not as overbearing as Christianity, self-contradicting as Islam, unbeliveable as Judiasm, confusing as Buddhism, or just weird as Hinduism.... I'd believe in that.

Another god-hater.....yay! There's one more than me.....

Personally, I find religion ridiculous - too dogmatic (aside from a few) for me. It's all ''Cover that up!'' ''Don't do that!'' ''What are you doing that for!''. Did you know that during the 1300's to 1400's art was discouraged as the Church said rubbish like mankind cannot create anything as beautiful as God, so why bother? What a load of [insert word here]!!!!

I like the idea of Buddhism though - ''God is up there and He knows all...or does he?''. What a brilliant basis for a religion.

[nightsavior]

i do admit my spirtual beliefs make me happy but i am also very non denominational. i think religion is a way to press on when times get tough which is good BUT religions shouldn't push their sales pitch down the throats of ppl that don't wanna hear it.

[Kal]

I think the world is good with religion, although some religions may not have all the truths a lot of religions teach some good values that can make people a better people..

[Seraph Zero]

Religion isn't a bad thing at its essence. However, those who seek to use it to gain their own ends corrput what at once was inherently helpful to human existence. The simple fact of the matter is that religion is far too easily used for such aims. This considered, I say do away with religion. Then again, man will simply find another scapegoat for its actions.

[Smartass]

Religion gives people hope, and something to beleive in. Sometimes, it's all that keeps them going, and helps them through hardships. While I may not beleive in all religions...I do beleive that they are necessary.

[Dark Luther]

How is Islam contradicting, or Buddhism confusing, and Hinduism weird?
What I see is simply someone who doesn't know enough about the religions to actually make a realistic argument. I will admit that Christianity in many of it's forms is overbearing - but that is only under the interpretation of one organized church.

I find it incredible that Lycanthroat would poke fun at a religion simply by a quote that's not even the religion's actual belief but his own nearsighted view of it.

I have long studied the many problems with the organized church - most of your quarrels are in fact with the Catholic church are they not. I don't believe that mistakes made by a bureaucracy over 500 years ago is a good argument for all religion. As a Lutheran - much of what we are now is a result of the crap the Catholic church pulled in it's history.

I can understand having quarrels with God - not liking the way the earth is, not seeing a purpose in one, and seeing the organized religion as a simple creation of man.
But I don't like it when one brands a religion - specially when one doesn't seem to understand even it's most fundamental basics and get beyond the mistakes of man and ignore the written word and their broad meaning.

So again, I ask - Why is Islam contradictory, Why is Buddhism confusing, and Why is Hinduism weird?

[Pinkie Pie]

Lycanthroat is a girl... >.>

As far as the religions being talked about...

I don't know enough about Islam to know whether or not it's contraditing in itself, but what I do believe is that the way some of it's "followers" use it is contradictory to the religion itself, although that is an assumption. One of the things that I dislike about Islam (although this may fit into what I just said earlier) is it's mistreatment of women. However, like I said, I don't know enough about the religion itself to effectively argue about it.

Buddhism could be argued as being confusing, in the sense that some of the beliefs can get very complex and deep. That isn't a good argument against it, but I can see how the arguement could be made.

Hinduism's no more wierd than any of the other religions, once again, largely an assumption since I don't have extensive knowledge of it, but the same thing could be said about any other religion. Like the Buddhism claim, it's not really a great argument against any religion though.

[Miles]

A world without religion would be a really bad world to be in. Religion is what holds us together and religion isn't just something with a god that people follow it's a belief and if there is no religion to believe in...What would give people hope? What would make people think "Something good will come out this." when they feel that their world is ending. What fears would haunt them when they realise that one day, they will die? They won't have a comforting thought of maybe they'll go to heaven or some better place with a power that will make sure they are happy for eternity. A world without religion would be an awful place...A very pointless place, if I may add.

[Pinkie Pie]

Once again, beliefs and religions are being clumped together into one catagory, and it shouldn't be. People can have their own ideas about what will happen after death, can have hope, can have ideas, etc., without organized religion. I'll say it again, religion does not have a monopoly on those ideas and values. I'll use myself as an example, since I just had a discussion with you about my beliefs, so you know that I do have views on what happens outside of our current lives, as well as hope. Yet I do not belong to any religion. In my opinion, religion has hurt just as many, if not more, people as it has helped. The benifits of religion can be gotten elsewhere, and so religion is both unneccesary as well as harmful.

[Miles]

...I really am stumped on what to say...

I kinda didn't think about it like that...I forgot about it being all seperate like. But still...Even though I don't belong to a religion, same as you but still...We don't cos we don't want to. We like to think OUTSIDE the box ^_^ God! I love saying that! Anyways...Yeah we think there is way more to life than it being all black and white and laid out infront of us on a giant map...We, as we both know from our long and fun conversation, like to think of many other different and inventive ways as to what'll happen and so on...I'd go into detail but I'm kinda rushed.

But as I was saying before I rambled...We DON'T belong to a religion cos we don't want to...But some people, yes!! SOME people (Most people have it shoved into their brain that they should follow something when they are young, well...At least some, anyways.) But when they get older they can and if they truly wanted to, they would choose to follow something else or maybe nothing at all.

Attacking religion (Not that I'm saying you are Tessa-Chan, or anyone else for that matter, I'm just saying.) Anyways, attacking it isn't really fair...It's there cos people believe in it and if they believe in it, they obviously want it there. So let them believe in whatever they believe in...And let us do the same. I mean the violent stuff is awful...And shouldn't happen but that will take time...Maybe even forever to stop. When it comes to violence...I don't like to think it's a religion...I say it's someone saying "Our god wants you to do this!" and then shoving someone out to hurt people...It's using what people believe in as a tool to make them do what ever the other person wants...And that is cruel and unfair. But as I said, if it's there, chances are, it's cos someone wants it and at the end of the day, what right does anyone have to snatch something away from another person just cos they think it's wrong?

Gee, I can ramble for england -.- Sorry guys...You must all get so fed up of me going on like this...I can't help it...

[Dark Luther]

Why does it matter if someone is a man or a woman?

Well - I understand your views and believe your point about separation of church and everything else is something many should bring to heart. This may not be more visible than when you pointed out that just because those in islam practice contradictions - doesn't mean the religion is itself....

[Pinkie Pie]

Why does it matter if someone is a man or a woman?

Well, it's not the first time someone has called Lyccy a guy... just pointing it out.


Well - I understand your views and believe your point about separation of church and everything else is something many should bring to heart. This may not be more visible than when you pointed out that just because those in islam practice contradictions - doesn't mean the religion is itself....


I think you're agreeing with me... ^_^;; Sorry, I'm being a bit slow about working out exactly what you're saying. But I never said that Islam as a religion contradicts itself. I admitted that it may, but as I don't know enough about it, I can't really argue either side. *shrugs* So I'm giving it the benifit of the doubt and saying for the moment that it doesn't.

[Kal]

I think it matters whether we are woman or man..before this i life i believe we were meant to do certain stuff and that we were ment to be either woman and man.

[Pinkie Pie]

Um... Luther was talking about Lycanthroat.... >.>

[The Deity]

I think it matters whether we are woman or man..before this i life i believe we were meant to do certain stuff and that we were ment to be either woman and man.

Incase you didn't know the Discussion Table is not the ideal forum to act like a smartass. There was actually a good discussion going on here, let's leave it to continue.

[Smartass]

Incase you didn't know the Discussion Table is not the ideal forum to act like a smartass. There was actually a good discussion going on here, let's leave it to continue.
"Act like a smartass"
HEY!haha sorry couldn't resist.
The way the world is going, religion is becoming less and less important. It used to be much more influencial on the public. Wether this means that we are becoming more independant, or less trustworthy and that we can't beleive in something as pure as religion, I don't know.

[Dark Luther]

Did I call her a guy?
I don't know - I'm too lazy to check back....

Anyway - religion is becoming less important to some - but we can't forget how vital it still is in many other parts of the world and even this country. What we must watch for is interpritations of the law and word of god through it's organized religions.

As said - hundreds of years ago - the Catholic church took it's own interpritations
( made by man ) and made them the "word of god"; these radical and mostly way off interpritations led to rifts and breaks in the church, and much loss of life.

I see the same thing happening again - specially in the Bible belt and the middle east - where interpritations and notions from clergy are seen as god's law; while few take actual advise from the written text.

[Lycanthroat]

Why does it matter if someone is a man or a woman?

Why do people always assume I'm a bloke!!! It's so annoying!!! Thank you Ahiru for pointing that out.

When it comes to religion, it does matter whether you're a woman or man. Women, in lot of religions are considered inferior. The Bible, to me, is sexist especially in the Old Testament, on which one ''sexist'' religion, Judaism is based.
Being a man or a woman, even today, determines whether you can be an Orthodox Jew Priest. I also argue, it determines whether you want to be a the Pope or not. Whether you can have multiple partners in Mormonism. So, I disagree: It DOES matter, in religion, whether you are male or female.

[Sassafrass Raistimass]

Why do people always assume I'm a bloke!!! It's so annoying!!!Calling someone "he" and assuming it's a guy are two different things. If I don't know if somebody is a guy or a girl, I call him "he," because "he" is shorter, and "it" is just insulting.
When it comes to religion, it does matter whether you're a woman or man.But we weren't talking about religion. Just you.
Whether you can have multiple partners in Mormonism.You're about a century off there.

[Lycanthroat]

Calling someone "he" and assuming it's a guy are two different things. If I don't know if somebody is a guy or a girl, I call him "he," because "he" is shorter, and "it" is just insulting.

He is one letter shorter than she :hmm

But we weren't talking about religion. Just you

I'm flattered, but I wanted to make another point about religion.

You're about a century off there.
Nope, it still goes on here in Blighty. I was even asked on the street to join once - they didn't realize I wasn't over 16 (this was a couple of years ago).

[Sassafrass Raistimass]

He is one letter shorter than she :hmmAnd half the size of s/he. When it comes down to "he" or "she," "he" is only logical, unless women were the majority... which they aren't, on gaming sites.
I'm flattered, but I wanted to make another point about religion.I understand that, I'm only making sure you realize it was an unprovoked point.
Nope, it still goes on here in Blighty. I was even asked on the street to join once - they didn't realize I wasn't over 16 (this was a couple of years ago).It certainly does, but it's a practice that's condemned by the main Mormon Church.

[Kal]

Mormons are not polygamists...i should know i am one...damn polygamists...

[Ricdeau]

I think we'd be better with no religion. All that morals and values stuff is a load of shit. Why? Because I have never been religious but I still have morals and values, saying that we get those from religion is just not true.

[Lancet Jades]

I think we'd be better with no religion. All that morals and values stuff is a load of shit. Why? Because I have never been religious but I still have morals and values, saying that we get those from religion is just not true.
Yes, but do you have them because they naturally evolved in society seperate from religion? Or do you only possess the morals and values BECAUSE for so long, religion was integral in society, and thus even now that secular society is emerging strongly, it takes with it the morals and values that the religious society held?

I am aware that religion is not absolutely neccessary for morals, values, and ethics to emerge, but the majority of western values were largely derived from Christianity, or at least tempered by it. And since all major and/or influential religions from all over the world provide a code of conduct (morals, ethics, values, etc), its difficult to say whether the "morals" we have would still exist as they do if religion had never existed.

[idgaf rpgfan]

its difficult to say whether the "morals" we have would still exist as they do if religion had never existed.
Either the morals would exist or humanity would be still be living in caves. Morals are just a set of guidlines that keep a society functioning. Without morals cooperation in a large group would be impossible.

[Lancet Jades]

Either the morals would exist or humanity would be still be living in caves. Morals are just a set of guidlines that keep a society functioning. Without morals cooperation in a large group would be impossible.
Like I said, without religion we probly WOULD have developed morals and such, but like it or not, religion is what has tempered them into what we use today. There's no way to tell what morals would be like had we not had religion. For all anyone knows, we might think it ok to execute people for ANY larger infraction against society (commit arson, dead. steal a car, dead. hit a police officer, dead. file taxes wrong, dead.) It seems ridiculous by a lot of standards (even strict religions aren't quite THAT bad), but starting from zero with morals, its possible. But then again, ANY development of morals is POSSIBLE (in a religious vacuum)

[The Deity]

Yes, but do you have them because they naturally evolved in society seperate from religion? Or do you only possess the morals and values BECAUSE for so long, religion was integral in society, and thus even now that secular society is emerging strongly, it takes with it the morals and values that the religious society held?

I am aware that religion is not absolutely neccessary for morals, values, and ethics to emerge, but the majority of western values were largely derived from Christianity, or at least tempered by it. And since all major and/or influential religions from all over the world provide a code of conduct (morals, ethics, values, etc), its difficult to say whether the "morals" we have would still exist as they do if religion had never existed.

Well if you want to use the Native Americans as an example, who had much less of a religous structure than Europe did. They found many ideas that we would consider unthinkable to be comman (such as incest). I think that some kind of moral system would have developed without religion, but it'd be far from what we have today.