Why is sex more contraversial then violence?

[nightsavior]

I'm bringing this up for debate. Why in our society is sex more contraversial then violence? Anything of a "erotic nature" gets labeled as pornography and is kept "hush hush" but if we want to we can go see something like Saw in a movie theatre in which people are getting tortured, mutilated , and murdered. Likewise on the news its a-ok to show bodies and casulties in a report about war yet if something is sexaul it is only briefly talked about if that.

Religion often says that sex should only be used for procreation but never for fun or pleasure. Devout catholics believe masturbating is murdering millions of unborn children. While I see the logic in that statement if we just "screwed to make babies" we would have major over population issues.


Many Protestants believe only the missionary position is applicable and that trying "exciting new things in the bedroom" is a type of sin.


So my question is why are we 100% ok with seeing a person roll up in a car and shoot another person in the head on the news or in a movie yet when sex is brought up everyone whines and complains saying they're offended?

Personally I'm more afraid of serial killers and war crimes then I am of people trying to live exciting sex lives. In a society in which violence and depictions of death are seen as less contraversial then sexaulity I seriously have to question the "sanity" of that civilization as a whole.

Opinions?

[Dark Marmosett]

ITs all about our standards. Like in europe and japan they have stuff considered vulgar here as stuff more natural. Geuss we are just fucked up. Maybe we are the backwards country out of all of them in the whole world. >.>

[The Deity]

I think its because our society understands that violence is wrong and not to do the crazy things we see in movies, tv, or video games. However, America as a whole seems to believe that sex related stories belong private, we don't inquire about our neighbors in real life and that should be kept private in our forms of media.

Also, I think its reasonable for parents to be more prone to shield their children from more sexual movies than violant movies because as I already said, they know what's right and wrong. However, they may not want them exposed to all the sexual themes yet.

[nightsavior]

Yes, but some people "like" the violence they see and do not even see it as wrong. Think about how many inner city gangs shoot or beat up people everyday and simply see it as survival. Marines likewise kill people. They of course usaully do it in self defense or for our freedoms but the point remains what they do is still seen as less shocking then say seeing sex in a movie or two people making out in public.

I have to agree if I had a child I wouldn't want them to see sexual content...Then again I wouldn't want them seeing gore and violence either. I do not think violence should be more acceptable then sex.

Now once we become teenagers it doesn't matter. How many of us played mature rated video games we shouldn't have or looked through "daddy's stash" and saw some porn mags? Ironically society enstills the fact teenagers are innocent...but as I recall I was anything but naive to sex and violence as a teen.

Personally I'm no exhibitionist either. In my relationships I've never wanted for me and my girl friend at the time to do it "out in the open" . However I am a voyeur at times. I've looked at pornographic material. I always saw erotic art or photography as arousing or beautiful. To me it is nicer then seeing a prisioner of war get shot in the back of the head or watch some poor sap get the crap beat out of him by a buncha bloods or crips.

The question was more directed at adults. I agree children should not be able to easily get their hands on violent or sexaul material. Kids are trying to grow up too fast as it is.

[Dark Marmosett]

For example. My friends younger brother who is 11 years old I beleive is now extremely vioelnt. Curses up storms. Only after he started and was allowed to play violent games. Now take a look at my 2nd cousin who is the same age who wasn't exposed to such stuff except for wreslting. A perfect child. Not violent. Quite timid and meek.

Viewing violent or explict stuff by younger children does make them out to be more violent and more full of themselves. Parents these days are going right down the drain as parents.

[nightsavior]

Yeah you don't let an 11 year old watch the newest Miami vice movie or play something like God of war or San andreas. Problem is kids are the most impressionable bunch. Moreso then even teens. To be honest playing Mortal Kombat at 15 did not screw me up in the head...but if I would have played it at say 10....oh man. I'd be one deranged youngster.

[Dark Marmosett]

Kid is screwed up now after playing it. He seemed decent despite the fact he was still gay before hand. But thats not the point.

Violence and explict stuff in kids leaves way to much of an impression I have to agree there. At one football game me and my friend are walking around. What do we see but liek what. 8-11 year old girls dressed like sluts and doing acting like exotic dancers with a dance pole with one of many light poles that encircle the foot ball field. WTF has gone wrong with people these days. >.<.>.<.>.<.>.<.>.<

[nightsavior]

Oh don't get me started on my hatred of new kid fashions. I'll go Cobra Kahn crazy! You don't want that! lol.

Yeah I see that all the time, 12 year old girls dressed up like they are 18 year old goth strippers. I wonder why that is legal considering the girls can get into heaps of trouble...and get other people into heaps of trouble as well. I mean I'm not saying young girls don't have the right to look "cute" but there is a difference between cute and slutty.

In some ways we're too lenient on kids giving them the rights of "adults" when they shouldn't even have those rights until they are older and more mature.

Stable adults and mature teens can handle violent and sexaul entertainment well in most regards but kids definetly cannot.

[Seraph Zero]

Oh, both sex and violence are equally loved by Americans. However, the "moral majority" find sex to be the greater evil, considering the fact that the damned Neo-Cons spend all our time and tax dollars on wars... Why demonize yourself like that? It simply wouldn't be very pragmatic, and as we all know, pragmatism is a way of life for most Americans...

~Seraph

[Rainbow Dash]

Yeah, it's entirely because of the kiddies. It's not so much the government as it is overprotective parents. What doesn't make sense to me is why NUDITY is more contraversial than violence.

[nightsavior]

I understand protecting kids both from violent and sexaul content. I just don't want to be "protected" from these things as an adult.

The way I see it we do not protect children enough especially when 10 year old girls try dressing up like Madonna and the parents don't tell them "No, I love you but you cannot dress like a sex icon at your age." I know it's hard saying no to a kid when they pout or start crying but damn, parents gotta put their foot down at some point.

I do not think nudity is contraversial as much. I see avies that skate close to full nudity and noone cares + alot of video games have nudity and few gamers raise a huff over it.

In Rpgs, God of war, castlevania, Blood rayne 2, and san andreas I've seen alot of exposed "breasts" so it's hard to fathom nudity is unaccepted unless you are referring to public displays of nudity. Also there is the biasm that naked girls are not nearly contraversial as naked guys. However since I prefer seeing naked women I confess that type of "discrimination" does not effect me.

Honestly though I cannot help but to see violence as worse then sex. I'd say the only time sex is more depraved and atrocous then death or murder is when it is rape .


As a hot blooded male of course I like themes of both sex AND violence. I just do not understand why the more extreme of the two seems more embraced. However Seraph brings up a good point. Since war is paraded as patriotic and heroic in propaganda many people believe killing and brute force is justified so long as it serves the motives of their particular nation or militia.

[Zelphiel]

What doesn't make sense to me is why NUDITY is more contraversial than violence.

yeah, I agree 100% there. I don't get why some people protest nudity in art and on tv or games when it's only nudity with little sexual content.

I guess they're all just prudes.

as for violence... who knows. we have a pretty violent society so maybe we subconciously enjoy seeing it.

[[PhiberOpticks]]

Honestly, I think sexuality and violence in video games should just be left alone. It's a source of controversy that is taking too much attention away from more important matters. Almost every video gamer who has a political stance (at least on video games) will say something along the same lines as this, "It is the parent's responsibility to censor what a kid sees and plays."

I actually saw that Japan manages just fine. Kids are just as simple if not better behaved, even in the presence of hentai video ad cutout people in front of them.

But this is coming from a guy suffering from a travel back in time, 25 minutes. I just flew from Japan to New Jersey and ended up landing in an area that is 25 minutes behind Japan at the time I left. So the jet lag is quite hefty.

[Zelphiel]

I actually saw that Japan manages just fine. Kids are just as simple if not better behaved, even in the presence of hentai video ad cutout people in front of them.

I'm sure the way parents raise kids in Japan is a little different too.

anyway, welcome back.

[[PhiberOpticks]]

I'm sure the way parents raise kids in Japan is a little different too.

anyway, welcome back.

Yeah, it is slightly different, but not by much. There, there is no such thing as DYFS there. So that should tell you something about how they do child rearing. The entire culture contributes to it, really. I could lecture about it all day long, but I'll just say that they are a culture based on self-restraint, so they recognize the boundaries of how much punishment is enough.

Thanks, good to be back.

[The Deity]

Oh, both sex and violence are equally loved by Americans.

I don't know about that. Maybe privately, but I doubt that they are equally loved in games.

However, the "moral majority" find sex to be the greater evil, considering the fact that the damned Neo-Cons spend all our time and tax dollars on wars... Why demonize yourself like that? It simply wouldn't be very pragmatic, and as we all know, pragmatism is a way of life for most Americans...

Can you honestly make a post without bashing conservatives? I can't recall a single one. Sure war is violent, but if you take that extremeist stance, wouldn't "the damn neo-cons" want ot encourage sex too in order to create that army?

There's a big difference between GTA and war and any dipshit can tell you that.

[Rainbow Dash]

I've heard the phrase "Kids in Japan are treated as adults until they act otherwise." Perhaps we instill it as a "naughty" thing, which only makes them want it more.

[nightsavior]

I think Seraph was right just on a broader level. I'm not blaming America or conservatives in particular for War or it being premoted as patriotic. Every country in the world does that to an extent. People in general will only fight for a cause they believe in. I know democratic presidents that have gotten us into wars too. I'm also not saying battles are always bad. Because soldiers put their lives on the line I'm able to have my freedom. There is nothing more heroic then that. Of course you have "bad soldiers" that rape and do other atrocities during war but it is my understanding we generally punish our marines for breaking the law.

There are times violence is justified. What if you beating down a bunch of thugs trying to get to your wife and kids? Or you're trying to stop a suicide bomber with a sniper shot to the head? Sure you are using extreme measures but it is for a greater good. I rather take one life then have that one life take out a hundred other innocent lives. It's a buddhist saying to think not what you are killing but what you are allowing to live.

Gang violence it does seem pointless. However kids growing up in the inner city often think joining a gang is the only way to have a sense of family and be able to survive. I never met a real gangsta that loved being a gangsta. Most idiots that glorify gang life are surburban white kids that played San andreas and think it's fun and games with no tragedy or consequences involved. Those types of people are the "I'm a gangsta for da hos and money" crowd. They are also the first to piss their pants if they make a wrong turn and end up in harlem newyork.

As for violence and sex in videogames as an adult I prefer it. What can I say? God of war was a guilty pleasure as was Fable, Resident evil 4,Soul calibur 3,Blood Rayne 2, and Fall-out. I do not think all games should be watered down just to make it safe for the kiddies. However we should make it impossible for the 6-12 crowd to be able to get their hands on such games. As I said kids are more impressionable. Sure playing violent games with a few sexaul themes didn't phase me as a 15 year old but had I played them younger as a child I know I would have acted out more and screamed alot. Even kids that watch wrestling or power rangers often act like they're fighting or try pulling of their own "heroic stunts". Now imagine these same children after playing God of War. (shudders)

[[PhiberOpticks]]

I'm not going to bash any conservatives for starting wars. Many democrats have started unnecessary wars as well. But yeah, we can't just go and blame everything on the Repubs (conservatives; in name only, whether or not they are still conservative is debatable). I blame the democrats for not being able to agree on a candidate, as well as all these liberal offshoots that take democratic votes away, insuring that a republican gets elected into office. However, this is offtopic.

Honestly, I think we should just overlook the presence of violence and sex in video games and entertainment, although the rating system should still be in place, as there are certain things that kids should not watch.

But this issue encompasses a lot of things. You could talk about gay marriage and talk about the War in Iraq, you could talk about the Hot Coffee Mod, or violence on television. Too many bases to cover if you ask me. That's why I say, fuck it. Sex shouldn't be that big of a deal, socially speaking. At least, not any bigger of a deal than violence.

*EDIT* Yeah, I made a typo. Hotaru caught it.

[Pinkie Pie]

I'm not going to bash any conservatives for starting wars. I just bash them for starting wars, among many other bad things.

Er, was that a typo? Or was there some kind of sarcastic irony there that I missed? It sounds contradictory.

[Night]

I think it was a joke, Hotaru... not gonna speak as to it's funny-ness.

I think that since nudity came before violence if anything is to be seen as dirty it shouldn't be sex organs. I love sex and violence, but sexual situations, not nudity, should be witheld from children. You can tell a child that violence is wrong, then show them it, and tell them that they can't ever mimick what they see, or you'll beat that ass. You can show a child bad language, tell them that they can't mimmick it, or you'll beat that ass. You can't show a child an adult sexual situation and tell them it's wrong, because it isn't, it's natural, but not for them at that age.

Don't get me talking about 5th grade sluts, because I'll have an aneurism.

I actually saw that Japan manages just fine. Kids are just as simple if not better behaved, even in the presence of hentai video ad cutout people in front of them.
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[Sassafrass Raistimass]

I think its because our society understands that violence is wrong and not to do the crazy things we see in movies, tv, or video games.Something like that, but I think it's more that it just sounds silly to say "Violence is bad," because we can accept it at premise and it warrants no further discussion, which ironically makes us more tolerant of it, than, say, sex, which you hear a bunch of people screaming the evils of because nobody has a reason to believe them, if that makes sense.

[Night]

True, you're fighting an uphill battle when you tell people that sex is bad.

[nightsavior]

You can tell a child sex is wrong to pursue at their age just as you can tell them violence is wrong so that still does not make a good argument. Sex like violence is easy to "bump into" be it online or real life while children visit an adult relative's house or even sneak into their parents bedroom. Also kids "do" have acess to the discovery channel and "do" ocasionally watch animals having sex at school.

All Americans understand violence is wrong? A wrestler would say they get paid to wrestle. A crip would say he shoots people so he doesn't get shot in turn. A marine would say it is for his country. A cop claims at times it is necessary to protect and serve. A hitman would say like the wrestler it is his occupation and how he gets by. Alot of people have justified excuses for violent acts, even kids that shoot other students or teachers at their school. Some of these people have no choice but to be violent in certain situations to serve the greater good....but others do it just for profit, power, and out of misguided rage which results in the loss of innocent lives.


Yet if two people are discovered to be porn stars or that one might pose naked for a magazine all the sudden they have an angry mob telling them they aren't American, They aren't decent church folk so they should get the hell out.

Ask me honestly if I'd rather live next to a porn star / erotic artist or a hitman ex navy seal and I'll say with a level voice I would feel safer living next to a porn star or erotic artist.

As I said I'm a guy...I like violence and sex.....but despite reasons given it is still hard for me to find justifyable facts why sex is more absurd in society then violence.

Raistlin's theory is proably the closest to being correct.

[Sassafrass Raistimass]

True, you're fighting an uphill battle when you tell people that sex is bad.That's only half of what I meant. Because it's an uphill battle, and not as clear-cut as "Violence is wrong," the proponents of the "Sex is bad" (I'm generalizing a bit here) theory are going to scream all the louder about it. Because of that, the meme that sex is somehow more repulsive than violence catches on, simply because people hear it more often.

[Night]

Well yes, children will be exposed to sex like it or not, but then you talk to them about the age and all. I highly doubt that your child anywhere under 8 will find your pornography, and by 8 you can explain it all to them... unless it's Backdoor Sluts Nine, in which case your child will be scarred forever. (South Park reference, not an actual porno... as far as I know)

[Rainbow Dash]

Ask me honestly if I'd rather live next to a porn star / erotic artist or a hitman ex navy seal and I'll say with a level voice I would feel safer living next to a porn star or erotic artist.


I'm sure there are other reasons too. :P

Raist's idea makes sense... it explains why it isnt as contraversial in Japan as well, as Christianity (where alot of the whole "no sex before marriage, shame shame" viewpoint comes from) isnt as prevalent there.

[Perfect Dark]

sex and violence is okay just only if there is no naughty words

[nightsavior]

So no 8 year old ever walks in on their parents at the wrong time or get curious what big brother looks at and handle the girly mag he carelessly has lying around? It happens. At 10 I got into my brother Paul's hidden magazines fortunatelly at that age it didn't really "screw me up". I was a bit curious but it didn't make me want to run out find a girl and say "Want to do things with me that are in adult magazines?" At that age though I thought kooties were spread by kissing so why would I want to go further then that? lol. But yeah normally you're right Dead. Be hard for a 5 or so year old to find da pron and even if they did...they'd forget it quickly being in pursuit of other things like cookies....or crayons.

Raistlin had a good theory...we simply accept violence though we may not think it is always right wherevas people scream "sex is bad" just to stand out, be heard, and for whatever reason it sounds more cachy due to certain morals and ethics prevaliant in the states.

[Seraph Zero]

Ask me honestly if I'd rather live next to a porn star / erotic artist or a hitman ex navy seal and I'll say with a level voice I would feel safer living next to a porn star or erotic artist.
It would probably make neighborhood social gatherings that much more interesting...

Now, as far as Raist's theory goes... I'd have to agree, to a point. I still back the entire idea of nationalism legitimizing violence, but I do see what he's saying... Violence is bad, period. No discussion, no argument. I think it's more of an untouchable topic, though, because of its "necessity" in world politics.

The Abstinence Army out there, however, shouts at a brick wall... "Sex bad? No, I think not. It's rather nice, actually." And thus, America ignores this element, prompting them to scream louder and louder until our earplugs are soaked with the blood pouring out of our ears.

~Seraph

[The Deity]

Oh, both sex and violence are equally loved by Americans. However, the "moral majority" find sex to be the greater evil, considering the fact that the damned Neo-Cons spend all our time and tax dollars on wars... Why demonize yourself like that? It simply wouldn't be very pragmatic, and as we all know, pragmatism is a way of life for most Americans...

A few points...

I hardly think the violence in Call of Duty is nearly as big of a deal as the violence in Grand Theft Auto.

Also, I don't think that people support a war means that they support violence. Once again, the games that come under fire for violence are more gang related games.

I hardly find myself demonizing myself by be unsensible. All you spew is your pacifist hatred from conservatives, that seems less pragmatic to me.



Yet if two people are discovered to be porn stars or that one might pose naked for a magazine all the sudden they have an angry mob telling them they aren't American, They aren't decent church folk so they should get the hell out.


I don't think the response would be nearly as bad as discovering you're living next to a hitman...

[nightsavior]

Of course it would! You see the hitman would kill people...before they could complain about him. Think about how many hardened criminals are catholic, baptist, or prostestant? Alot of killers live double lives and outside their profession can seem like the nicest most spiritual upstanding individuals around. Of course I'm not implying that there aren't pagan killers, jewish killers, buddhist killers, ot atheist killers either. It was just a narrowed down example.

[Sassafrass Raistimass]

Alot of killers live double lives and outside their profession can seem like the nicest most spiritual upstanding individuals around.Serial killers, maybe, but not hitmen.

[Seraph Zero]

A few points...

I hardly think the violence in Call of Duty is nearly as big of a deal as the violence in Grand Theft Auto.

Also, I don't think that people support a war means that they support violence. Once again, the games that come under fire for violence are more gang related games.

I hardly find myself demonizing myself by be unsensible. All you spew is your pacifist hatred from conservatives, that seems less pragmatic to me.
I'm idealistic, not pragmatic, and I never claimed to be otherwise...

But the point you're trying to make here... It's lost on me. I'm probably misunderstanding what, exactly, it is you're saying, but... This example you've given displays the idea of war being glorified by nationalism. Parents and lawmakers everywhere deplore the violence in games like GTA, but have very little to say when it comes to games about war. The violence is still there, and still, to some extent, glorified. War is war and violence is violence... Who's to say that gang violence doesn't constitute warfare, or that Iraq isn't a violent war? War and violence are glorified if they're in the name of the homeland. Sorry, but you can't be pro-war and anti-violence... It just doesn't work out too well.

~Seraph

[nightsavior]

I don't know. Some hit men have famalies...act like loving fathers....The difference between them or a marine is simply different employers. In theory we pay certain people to be killers. I'm not saying that it is not needed. Unfortunately it is. Every society needs warriors to protect it and preserve the ethics it represents. Hitmen can act as "normal" as serial killers or ex-marines can. Heck, they are able to put up a polite friendly facade because in either case they're numb inside or do not see murder as wrong anymore.


I'm not Pro-War. But I do think fighting is necessary at times. However if you ask me which is the greater sin, sexaul indulgement or murder the later seems to be a bigger sin. However we justify certain scenarios in which murder is just whereas sex is seen as wrong if coupled with having it before marriage or a younger person doing it with an older person. Sure we get e-mail spam premoting many sexaul taboos including sex with barely legal teens, sex with hot girls from different ethnicalities,bondage, and group sex yet ironically most of these fantasies that are premoted are also illegal or seen as wrong by the majority. So we get the contradiction of developing these fantasies through what we are exposed to yet not being able to pursue them. There is something very sick about that. It's like dangling meat in front of a dog making it hungry then slapping its nose for trying to eat the meat.

[The Deity]

But the point you're trying to make here... It's lost on me. I'm probably misunderstanding what, exactly, it is you're saying, but... This example you've given displays the idea of war being glorified by nationalism. Parents and lawmakers everywhere deplore the violence in games like GTA, but have very little to say when it comes to games about war. The violence is still there, and still, to some extent, glorified. War is war and violence is violence... Who's to say that gang violence doesn't constitute warfare, or that Iraq isn't a violent war? War and violence are glorified if they're in the name of the homeland. Sorry, but you can't be pro-war and anti-violence... It just doesn't work out too well.

Even if you're anti war, can you really equate killing for your fix of crack or not wantign to pay a hooker to taking down Nazi Germany?

That's far from idealistic.

[Seraph Zero]

Even if you're anti war, can you really equate killing for your fix of crack or not wantign to pay a hooker to taking down Nazi Germany?

That's far from idealistic.
You have a point... However, drug use and prostitution are not the issues at hand here... Hell, then you get into a whole new pot of controversy... I suppose, yes, that coupled with other aggravating factors, violence in some forms could receive more heat than others. However, that doesn't mean that the lack of drug use and prostitution in a given violent video game should warrant it any slack. Just because you're killing Nazis instead of rival drug lords should change the "M" rating back to a "T." It's still violence, and should be deplored and kept away from young and impressionable children, which is the entire issue at hand here. Violence is more harmful, in a sense, than sex, when taken in by a child, whose moral code is still very much under construction... A child lacks the reasoning to distinguish between a Nazi and a drug lord, or even the neighborhood bully. All three are bad guys, so we're justified in killing them, aren't we? Well, aren't we...?

~Seraph

[Night]

Raist's idea makes sense... it explains why it isnt as contraversial in Japan as well, as Christianity (where alot of the whole "no sex before marriage, shame shame" viewpoint comes from) isnt as prevalent there. Christianity has even less hold in India, and sex before marriage is still taboo. It is and was in Japan, for women. Fact is that there's a double standard, different issue.

You have a point... However, drug use and prostitution are not the issues at hand here... Hell, then you get into a whole new pot of controversy... I suppose, yes, that coupled with other aggravating factors, violence in some forms could receive more heat than others. However, that doesn't mean that the lack of drug use and prostitution in a given violent video game should warrant it any slack. Just because you're killing Nazis instead of rival drug lords should change the "M" rating back to a "T." It's still violence, and should be deplored and kept away from young and impressionable children, which is the entire issue at hand here. That's ridiculous. Even you must agree that at times violence is the sensible course of action. Only Jesus (if you're into that) can say with honesty that he would never use violence. Using violence as a means of saving millions of innocents from a fascist regime is in no way as corrupt as using violence as a means of getting money back from a prostitute.