Why is gun crime in the United States so high?

[Altima]

Why is gun crime in the United States so high when compared with many other countries like Japan. (This was a topic on my forum so I thought i'd bring it here.)

I think it is because Americans are in love with blood and violence. We have had many real life gangsters which always sell movie tickets and shirts and stuff. We have lots of gangster movies like the Godfather saga, Scarface, Goodfellas, Casino, etc.

We also like games where you can be a gangster type character like in the GTA series and the Godfather.

I'll also attach a poll that was on ours. I'm gonig to vote no because if we didn't kill with guns we would just find some other way.

[Dark Luther]

I don't think it ever should, it's simply a concept of the constitution...

If one compares the US with other nations with higher gun restriction, one must see the entire picture.
Japan has far less crime, but this deals more with it's extremly professional and well funded Police Department and the onvolvement of the Yakuza ( which has a symbiotic influence of the underworld and help keep things controlled..).

There are many Nations with gun restrictions - and it tends to keep gun crime low - though crime with other weapons also seems to go way up. Yet, the US is so large and has had such a long history of gun ownership - that it's unrealistic to take them away...
Frankly, we'd see several movements of supremasist groups using it against the government - hell, we'd probably have dozens of Ruby Ridges or Oklahoma Cities...


Lastly, a nation with gun ownership can also have low crime -
nations like Switzerland which has Automatic Rifles under every bed, and some of the lowest gun crime rates in the world...

[Zelphiel]

Alty... the obvious answer to your question is the sheer number of guns in the US. like Luther said... if there were less guns it would be made up for with some other weapon.

[Chaos Theory]

americans like to kill each other

this is the same question bought up in bowling for columbian and they used Canada as the country to compare

and they asked americans why they thought candan didnt have as much and the most popular answers where

we dont watch as many violent movies and such...wrong
its mostly white people up here......wrong
there arent many guns....wrong


Most americans I have met have been very angry for some reason so I think that might have something to do with it but I dunno

[[PhiberOpticks]]

This is just speculation, but perhaps the reason gun crime is so high is because people have a "stick it to the man" mentality. As in, they're more tempted to do something if they're not allowed to. Sort of like Adam and the apple, I guess. So my guess would be that outlawing guns would only serve to make more crimes related to guns, since many people would not want to give up the right to own a gun.

[Chaos Theory]

that wouldnt work as the gun laws in Canada are a bitch and we dont have anywhere as close to the number of killings as the US has

[Rainbow Dash]

In Japan, guns cannot be bought or possessed. Period. Like in the one scene in Parasite Eve where the Japanese man gets all freaked out because he sees a gun store in the middle of the city.

The reason people have a hard time illegalizing anything that is accepted in society is just that - it is accepted in society. Society does not like to be told what to do. If it were illegalized, it would indeed fade away, in time. But for about a half century or so, the crime rate would be even higher before taking a nosedive. But nobody wants to take responsibility for that much bloodshed, and even if they did, someone in that time period would miss the bigger picture and re legalizer them. That's what happened with alcohol in the 20s, if it had not been repealed then there probably would be almost no alcoholism today.

This is like the abolishment of the Samurai in Japan centuries ago. After swrods were forbidden, samurai started causing more and more trouble than they used to until they were wiped out in Kagoshima. And you dont see people carrying around katanas today in Japan much, now do you?

On a side note, we really need to renew that ban on automatic weapons. I've heard some scary stories from cops about gangs armed with them.

[Qween B]

Here's a good point: Guns are too easy to get.
Next year on my 18th birthday, my record is clean, I can go to a store and get a liscense and theyll check me out and my record, after a week or so I can buy a gun.
Walmart used to sell guns even.
Theyre just too easy to get.

[Dark Marmosett]

There should be some form of a restriciton. At least a background check to see if they have a mental problem that is listed under their files. Usaully those are the kinds of peopel buying guns adn doign the shootings and killings.

[Rainbow Dash]

There should be some form of a restriciton. At least a background check to see if they have a mental problem that is listed under their files. Usaully those are the kinds of peopel buying guns adn doign the shootings and killings.
...They already do exactly that...

[[PhiberOpticks]]

The reason people have a hard time illegalizing anything that is accepted in society is just that - it is accepted in society. Society does not like to be told what to do. If it were illegalized, it would indeed fade away, in time.

Yeah, murder must have faded away over 2 millenia ago...isn't it about time that they re-legalized it? More examples that contradict that: theft and adultery.

But alcoholism does seem to work well in that argument. I guess certain crimes just have different effects on people.

This is like the abolishment of the Samurai in Japan centuries ago. After swrods were forbidden, samurai started causing more and more trouble than they used to until they were wiped out in Kagoshima. And you dont see people carrying around katanas today in Japan much, now do you?

Yakuza

[Rainbow Dash]

Yeah, murder must have faded away over 2 millenia ago...isn't it about time that they re-legalized it? More examples that contradict that: theft and adultery.

But alcoholism does seem to work well in that argument. I guess certain crimes just have different effects on people.

That's because things like that are actions that can be performed with human hands, while gun crimes require a gun, and alcoholism requires booze.

The biggest exception to this rule is weed, but that is because society has more or less accepted its illegal use. It's still not as big of a "problem" as it would be if it were legal though, but that's not the point.

Yakuza
-.- you tend too look too deeply into examples, which causes you to miss the point. I meant you dont see any real samurai anymore anywhere, yakuza or otherwise. The whole abolishment thing is complicated enough that it took me 5 pages to even scratch the surface of it, so I won't go into that much detail here.

[[PhiberOpticks]]

That's because things like that are actions that can be performed with human hands, while gun crimes require a gun, and alcoholism requires booze.

But doesn't it require a hand to fire a gun, and a hand to lift the bottle of booze to drink it?

I meant you dont see any real samurai anymore anywhere, yakuza or otherwise. The whole abolishment thing is complicated enough that it took me 5 pages to even scratch the surface of it, so I won't go into that much detail here.

The ideals of Yakuza are mainly about reviving the way of the samurai. They basically are trying to be modern-day samurais....who deal drugs.

[Rainbow Dash]

But doesn't it require a hand to fire a gun, and a hand to lift the bottle of booze to drink it?

Yeah, but without the gun or bottle, its pretty futile.

The ideals of Yakuza are mainly about reviving the way of the samurai. They basically are trying to be modern-day samurais....who deal drugs.
Really? I never really encountered that in my research.

Wikipedia to the rescue!

It doesnt say anything about that in Wikipedia. It just says it's the traditional protection money, red light kind of gang, but is distinguished by its traditions and close bonds.

[[PhiberOpticks]]

Yeah, but without the gun or bottle, its pretty futile.

Even if it's banned, Mexico and Canada will always come to the public's rescue, if you want to call it that. That's what black markets are for.

Really? I never really encountered that in my research.

I watched a doumentary about the Yakuza. Some of their members carry katanas around and kill targets in a ritualistic manner.

[Catholicon]

Why is gun crime in the United States so high when compared with many other countries like Japan. (This was a topic on my forum so I thought i'd bring it here.)

Our criminal justice system is complete crap.

I think it is because Americans are in love with blood and violence. We have had many real life gangsters which always sell movie tickets and shirts and stuff. We have lots of gangster movies like the Godfather saga, Scarface, Goodfellas, Casino, etc.

...and that proves? Seriously just because guns are some of the most powerful weapons ever concieved, why do people think the people who use them for wrong are some how affected so highly by a media cause? I don't care what anyone says, any form of media does not and should not drive anyone to go out and try a killing spree down the block. Anyone who pleads that something like that caused them to do it shouldn't get a trial. Concerning the statement about Americans being the ones 'in love with blood and violence', ever take it upon yourself to actually look at other people around the world? Let us start from the beginning of the human race....Most people executed in the Biblical period were crucified, which is far more gorey than shooting someone. During the Midieval period they quartered, beheaded, and burned people in front of hundreds of people. Even if it were a demonstration of the power of the law, you don't see public executions in America. The Chinese were notorious for their torture meathods. As were many other countries/races of people....and they all came before America was even concieved of...


americans like to kill each other

Read above...

We also like games where you can be a gangster type character like in the GTA series and the Godfather.

Ok and?

that wouldnt work as the gun laws in Canada are a bitch and we dont have anywhere as close to the number of killings as the US has

Ok? Then tell my why Washington D.C. is repealing it's ban on guns that was set over 30 years ago. Since then their crime rates have skyrocketed. Why? It's because law abiding citizens cannot defend themselves against a criminal who has a damned gun. I don't care how many times someone says if we out law guns completely the crime rates gonna go down. Where does that thinking come from? When they banned alcohol in the US, we started bootlegging and making our own. When they banned so many illegal substances from use people still smuggle them into the country, and they are distributed on a massive scale. Why should guns be any different?

This is just speculation, but perhaps the reason gun crime is so high is because people have a "stick it to the man" mentality. As in, they're more tempted to do something if they're not allowed to. Sort of like Adam and the apple, I guess. So my guess would be that outlawing guns would only serve to make more crimes related to guns, since many people would not want to give up the right to own a gun.

That's pretty much the thinking of most people in general. To what extent you must provoke them before they will 'attain' that sense of thinking is completely personality dependant and is generally low for most of the population. Your thought about the crime associated with guns going up is probably true in every sense. :D

On a side note, we really need to renew that ban on automatic weapons. I've heard some scary stories from cops about gangs armed with them.

Whilst I agree with most, if not all that you've said, banning fully automatic weapons isn't gonna fix anything. If you're already breaking the law on a federal scale, why not just go all the way? Most people breaking the law to that extent seem to lack that which we call a conscience, or any moral integrity. I highly doubt a ban on full autos will damper any illegal use of them.

Walmart used to sell guns even.

The still do in the majority of their stores.

Now that I've got that out of my system....here's my whole take on the gun schtuffs...

Guns don't kill people. People kill people with guns. The gun won't do jack shit until you pull the trigger. Guns are a tool, a recreational item, an item of defense. If used correctly, and moraly they do absolutely no harm to anyone. While we live in this world full of immoral people their actions will exaggerate the evils of mankinds own inventions.

Gun crime is 'so high' because it's more effective to get what you want out of a person than any other commercially available weapon. Why is that so hard for people to get?

[Rainbow Dash]

Whilst I agree with most, if not all that you've said,
HOLY SHIT!

banning fully automatic weapons isn't gonna fix anything. If you're already breaking the law on a federal scale, why not just go all the way? Most people breaking the law to that extent seem to lack that which we call a conscience, or any moral integrity. I highly doubt a ban on full autos will damper any illegal use of them. Isn't going to fix anything, true, but at least it would cut back on it. You'd still see them in gangs and on hardened criminals, but at least a regular citizen isnt going to have one lying around their house in case they get freaked out when a police officer shows up at their door.

Making things illegal doesn't usually stop them - it cuts back on them. For example, a good portion of the reson I never have done any drugs, even during my evil days, was because I didn't know where to get them, since any talk about them was under wraps and such.

[Lancet Jades]

HOLY SHIT!

Isn't going to fix anything, true, but at least it would cut back on it. You'd still see them in gangs and on hardened criminals, but at least a regular citizen isnt going to have one lying around their house in case they get freaked out when a police officer shows up at their door.

Making things illegal doesn't usually stop them - it cuts back on them. For example, a good portion of the reson I never have done any drugs, even during my evil days, was because I didn't know where to get them, since any talk about them was under wraps and such.
True, banning something does cut back on its use, but is it right to rob law-abiding citizens the ability to protect themselves on even terms with today's weapon technology, just to "cut back" on gun crime some?

Its true that even with a ban on guns, criminals, gangs, and other outlaws will still possess them, as they already have access to them, or know how to obtain them via black markets. I don't see how its fair to remove the best defense law-abiding people have against such forces (among other things, such as all the 2nd amendment militia crap, and such), and I certainly don't see how you can justify doing so just to
cut back" on it.

Oh, and getting drugs is much easier than you make it out to be. I could, at any time, obtain pretty much any kind of drug I want within a short period of time, and I don't even know anyone who's into drugs around here. Yet, I probably could nonetheless. Banning drugs just means the dealers cant advertise them in shop windows and such.

[Rainbow Dash]

One thing that was indeed going through my mind as I was posting the above message was that you actually are responsible for a criminal's medical bill if you shoot one in your home and don't kill it. So I do suppose that having those kinds of weapons would solve that problem.

And remember, I live in the "middle of nowhere". There are hardly ever even any people on the streets around my home, except that psycho jogging lady that I swaer never even sleeps ever.

[Dark Marmosett]

...They already do exactly that...
I thought they only do a background check on criminal charges and nothing else.

[Cherubim1324]

Banning guns will only take them away from law-abiding citizens. However, most of the people who commit gun crimes will still have them and will still have access to them. Why? Because they generally do not obtain them legally. Why do you think we call them criminals(such a cartoony word).

[Lancet Jades]

One thing that was indeed going through my mind as I was posting the above message was that you actually are responsible for a criminal's medical bill if you shoot one in your home and don't kill it. So I do suppose that having those kinds of weapons would solve that problem.

And remember, I live in the "middle of nowhere". There are hardly ever even any people on the streets around my home, except that psycho jogging lady that I swaer never even sleeps ever.
Exactly. YOU may live out in the middle of nowhere, but what about lower-class families living in urban areas where gangs and drugs are rampant? Just because YOU don't particularly need to have a gun for protection, doesn't mean no one does, and hence, is a poor justification for banning guns.

People need and deserve protection in the form of a weapon, much more in some areas than others. Banning guns would just ensure that more law-abiding citizens will be made victims of crimes (especially gun crimes) committed by criminals who obtain guns anyways, illegally.

And laws regarding what you can and cant do to people who break into your house also serve to enhance criminals' rights. I believe that ifd someone breaks into your house, it should be completly legal to do whatever you want to the person, without any fear of legal recourse whatsoever. It should be a gamble on the part of the criminal. If they get killed, maimed, or whatever, then it should legally be their own fault, and not the homeowner's.

[Altima]

I don't think that there should be a ban on guns. I will buy one as soon as I move out for anyone who is stupid enough to try and rob me. However they may need to make better guards against ex-criminals and suchfrom getting them. I don't know what all they can check for on a background check but I say they should be able to check any records on a person from any police station mainframe or the FBI or Army. We really just need a better law system and check system. Check all their medical records as well for any mental illnesses or family problems.

[Rainbow Dash]

Ooh, here's an idea. I haven't thought it through totally though. Rather than the gun itself... why not make ammunition ungodly expensive? No, wait, that wouldn't work because there are still those crap countries... dammit, everything I think of can be avoided by going through another country.

[Lancet Jades]

Ooh, here's an idea. I haven't thought it through totally though. Rather than the gun itself... why not make ammunition ungodly expensive? No, wait, that wouldn't work because there are still those crap countries... dammit, everything I think of can be avoided by going through another country.
Which is what all the black markets will do, thus providing guns to any criminal who wants one, thus only robbing the law-abiding citizen of protection.

[Rainbow Dash]

Yeah... that's exactly why I think we should have a global government by now...

[[PhiberOpticks]]

I believe Lades' statement can be summarized in an analogy. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

I really don't see any great reason for drugs and firearms to be illegal. It's a strain on the Federal budget to send people to jail, put them on trial, etc. than it would to just present all the information on why something is bad. That's what anti-cigarette commercials do, and that's helped to reduce the number of people who smoke.

As for firearms, there should be a thorough background check on people who want to buy them, and then there should be laws that instruct people on what actions would be considered illegal (scenarios in which shooting someone would not be a wise idea), as well as a law or two on ownership of a gun and how to keep it out of the wrong hands, such as children. Took me a while to think of how to phrase that, so it might not send the message I'm trying to send. Just a thought.

[Rainbow Dash]

No, because then again, people get it on the black market and bypass all those systems. And even if they do go to it, just because they heard it doesnt mean they will practice it.

Now, what WOULD help things is if there was a group of pop icons that deglorified guns. Sadly, those kinds of people have the most influence in society. It very well could work, but it would involve the removal of... pretty much all of BET.

[[PhiberOpticks]]

No, because then again, people get it on the black market and bypass all those systems. And even if they do go to it, just because they heard it doesnt mean they will practice it.

Well studies show that it does have an influence. Also, you aren't going to stop people from trying to buy stuff off of the black market. I don't think there's much you can do to stop that.

Now, what WOULD help things is if there was a group of pop icons that deglorified guns. Sadly, those kinds of people have the most influence in society. It very well could work, but it would involve the removal of... pretty much all of BET.

They tried that, and so far, it's failed time and time again. Cuz people like goths and "thugs" and deadbeats will always glorify it and deglorify those "pop icons".

You just said that pop icons are good, but "sadly have the most influence in society". Also, what's so bad about BET as opposed to MTV, or any other TV channel that have rap music on it? I'm assuming that's what you're aiming for, am I correct?

[Ryw]

Ooh, here's an idea. I haven't thought it through totally though. Rather than the gun itself... why not make ammunition ungodly expensive?Dave Chappelle said something like make the cost of a bullet like $100,000 and it would reduce crime.

[[PhiberOpticks]]

And the black market would still have it for cheaper.

[Ryw]

Well.... duh. Dave's thing was part of his stand-up act and wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

[[PhiberOpticks]]

Heh I know, I saw that routine too. It was pretty damned funny.

[Rainbow Dash]

Well studies show that it does have an influence. Also, you aren't going to stop people from trying to buy stuff off of the black market. I don't think there's much you can do to stop that.



They tried that, and so far, it's failed time and time again. Cuz people like goths and "thugs" and deadbeats will always glorify it and deglorify those "pop icons".

You just said that pop icons are good, but "sadly have the most influence in society". Also, what's so bad about BET as opposed to MTV, or any other TV channel that have rap music on it? I'm assuming that's what you're aiming for, am I correct?
I'm certain we don't need to have a debate over that BET is a blight on society for how awfully it stereotypes blacks.

Anyway, before 1900ish, fat and pale was considered sexy. I dont remember the name exactly, but someone managed to change society's definition of beautiful.

[[PhiberOpticks]]

I blame Paris Hilton.

I know about BET's stereotyping, but theres more channels than that that stereotype people of color.

[nightsavior]

Nope, not just criminal charges. I'm bipolar 1 (manic depressive) so technically I cannot own a gun even if the fact remains I have not tried comitting suicide in many years.

Is that unfair? Not really..if I absolutely had to defend myself with fire power I know friends that have ample supply of fire arms as well as how to get guns through less legal means.