Green Bullets...

[Dark Luther]

In an interesting move, the US army has begun to change composition of it's rounds from lead to a Tungsten composite...

The main reasoning for this is that numerous firing ranges have been de-commissioned because of lead poisoning of the ground.

Tungsten rounds would be easily picked up and re-used, while not polluting the ground.
This is possible because the tungsten round is such a dense material that the main round won't collapse after striking the target.


In my view, this is a bit late, but at least their getting around to it.
I have long been a proponent of converting several types of ammunition to tungsten - as many nations already have.

This serves not only an enviromental purpose - but many nations have already perfected these rounds into light armor piercing bullets for regular troops ( giving certain nations an actual edge over regular US soldiers...).



- It should be noted though that the earlier use of these type of rounds - tungsten nylon in 1999 - have proved only somewhat succesful. It is my view though that the newer copper composite may prove more applicable ( as the Army stated early on to critics that the early Nylon component was not tested a green bullet, only an experiment ).

Research still needs to be made on the matter of tungsten;
still, lead rounds have already lead to the poisoning of numerous areas and their local ground water...

[Dark Marmosett]

My question is why would they even be using lead in the first place if they know lead is poisonous. Its been taken out of gasoline many years back why not with bullets. =/

[Zelphiel]

well... the type of damage that would be done was neglidgeable.

even though the rounds are made of lead it still wouldn't be enough to make anything seriously lead toxic.

[Dark Luther]

The problem is that the lead rounds at a firing range would be numerous, and lead itself breaks down and gets in the soil and in the drinking water...

up to now though, lead seemed the cheapest metal to make the bullets out of...

[Dark Marmosett]

And you would think alluminum would be since theres so damn much of it.

[Laggy]

And you would think alluminum would be since theres so damn much of it.
but would that be strong enough?

[Dark Marmosett]

Well if people just want to fire bullets into paper targets I would assume it would be good enough for a firing range.

[Laggy]

you have a point there

[Dark Luther]

First - it would shatter or collapse simply from the firing force...
also -
they need something that's realistic, or at least close ot it..

The NG uses rubber rounds as a cheap alternative - but they prefer real bullets for realistic effect ( thus the need to create a new type of ammunition...)

[Dark Marmosett]

I would have thought if they compacted the alluminum enough it could withstand the forces of being fired. =/ And rubber...I would think it wouldn't even go through the fired at target.

[Night]

Well, if you own a gun now is the time to sell all your lead bullets, cuz once tungsten is the standard they can be bought back dirt cheap... or repoed by the government, same thing.

[Dark Luther]

It may be possible that it won't involve the civilian market too much...
Green bullets cost more than lead bullets -
( though in the bulk of being used - the money saved in collecting them, clean up, and re-use ability of set it. ).

These factors won't matter much for civilians though...

They may limit it to a military conversion...

[Night]

But this way a recreational shooter can buy a box of bullets and be set for life. I don't see why they wouldn't use them.

[Dark Luther]

Well, the thing with tungsten bullets is that they can be re-used...,
but not right after..
The bullets need to be passed through and re-made into a bullet as only the core survives. You save money because this is very simple, and the core ( along with it's material ) is the expensive part - but you still have to send it back to the factory...


The military sees this as easy, since they already pick up spent rounds, they simply send them to supply who sends them new ready rounds - while it also saves them money in having to find new shooting ranges..


In civilian use - it's possible for companies ( like firing ranges and areas that teach fire arms ) to collect them and send them to a particular factory...

Also, some may do it themselves.
I have a friend who makes her own bullets along with her father. In this case they would simply pick up their spent rounds after firing, and re-use the good ones as cores...

( Tungsten isn't perfect, there will be times when it will damage - such as after hitting really hard surfaces. But it's so dense that one can tell if it's damaged or not.
As opposed to people who use lead shots -
since sometimes the shot isn't damaged, but they don't use it anyway because it might have internal damage...)

[Night]

Oh, I ain't a military engineer. You should be though >.>

[Zelphiel]

I would think it wouldn't even go through the fired at target.

the use of rubber bullets is when they need a 'less lethal' method for doing whatever.

[Night]

But they say taht rubber bullets bounce and hit people in the face and kill them. I say tough shit, listen to the popo next time.

[Kayodic_Weazel]

Aluminum - Aluminum bullets would most likely, as Dark Luther said, shatter from the force of firing and thus damage/clog your barrel and not do any good projectile-wise. The only exception to this is in very weak loads where there isn't really much powder, but then again, there would be less power for the projectile. Also, you must remember that aluminum isn't very dense, and that (compiled with speed) is where the force of a bullet comes from. A very light bullet would be unstable and weak and wouldn't carry over much power to knock a target down. Also, the recoil from a gun firing light loads w/ alum. bullets would be much lower than the recoil of a gun firing standard lead bullets, which is fine as long as you don't actually need to use the gun in a real-life situation. If your only use for a gun is to go shoot holes through paper, I suppose aluminum bullets would work, but think about it, how many manufacturers are going to produce bullets for such a small niche?

Green bullets - I dislike people that say stuff like "Oh you could buy a single box and be set for life" because you wouldn't be. I doubt you could reload the same slug more than once and not have it deform or develop fractures from impact into things, so I doubt that's the case here. You'd still need to buy new slugs, primers, a loading press, powder, and dies, which is exactly what reloaders use nowadays. Except you can expect the slugs to cost more because now they're tungsten. Also, because tungsten is MUCH MUCH harder than lead, wouldn't this be bad power-wise? Your bullets would zip right through targets (if they 're flesh targets) and not cause much internal damage and trauma. The military in Iraq is already having problems with the FMJ ammo they use in the M-16's, the problem being there isn't enough stopping power in the bullets, and there's too much over-penetration. That's yet another thing to consider.

[Night]

I dislike people that say stuff like "Oh you could buy a single box and be set for life" because you wouldn't be.And thus Cap'n asshole repeats what Luther said months ago and wins the thread!

[Kayodic_Weazel]

And thus Cap'n asshole repeats what Luther said months ago and wins the thread!

That's right, man. :D

[Dark Luther]

Well - on the matter of stopping power -
that problem already was created when they made the rifle in such a small calibur. They tried to compensate by developing a good frame and design with lots of power.

They've already considered new design concepts for the use of a green bullet - including a folding system by which the bullet would fragment from the middle into three controlled rounds.


Anyway - the concept of the green bullet is not a bullet for use against unarmed guerrillas - it's for use in target ranges in order to damage the local enviroment.

For combat - the bullet has yet to properly be designed -
but if and when it does - it would be of better use when fighting a more conventional battle against a modern nation which uses personal body armor for it's soldiers.