Religious Debate (split from "agree to disagree")

[Saberstar]

Whenever I post on Fairy's thread, he never respond back. :\
And do you want me to go into the whole god thing again. ^_^ I'm sure that I can pwn you once again.

[Laggy]

you didnt do anything ....you cant change my views on God, kenny, and thats somthing i wouldnt wish be tried on this forum..

[Saberstar]

That may be so but your point of view was really lame...Even though i'm not...religious. I feel like I have a higher chance to go to heaven then you do. >_>

[Laggy]

well, i go by the one and only Bible..that has a little about everything in it, and some times alot about something, and in a few places..a lot about nothing =/..but this isnt the time place or forum for this lol...

but i guess it fits into the thread being some of us (me and kenny) are disagreeing lol

and i dont see you having a better chance then me kenny, but thats from my views, as you use yours..we have the right to make our own, or go by others..

[Saberstar]

<_< If we discuss this, I bet 9/10 people would agree with me. My views...

[Laggy]

i dont really care..i will never care what other people think, of me or my views..but i stand by them...and they are mine, and for me only..this is why i dont post them, and try to tell others, becuase everyone has there own, and im not one to try to change others...

you know my views on what ..makes you hate me, thats thre only views i have told you, and only you. because i was talking to you and only you, and it wasnt for the forum...m views come on in there own time, not yours..i will not be part of a God bashing thread so this is my last post talking about views

and just to add, in my views..on what you hate me for..you VS me (a preacher soon to be) going to heaven...i think i'd make it, but im not the one who can judge rather you do or not

[Saberstar]

well I certainly don't think a preacher like you would think that god hates gay people, so that's the reason why he gave them AIDS.

[Laggy]

tell me kenny, would you really like to see me leave EF?, just ask and ill go you dont have to be an ass about it

and like i said, im not going into my views here, if you have that convo saved post the damn thing, if not then just stop..read the bible for yourselfs, but im not preaching here...this is where i come to get away from the preaching...and you guys realy wouldnt like the preacher i am...trust me...if this keeps up, you will see me leave this site kenny, so drop it

[Saberstar]

You're only saying this because you're afraid. Afraid how others would think of you.

"i dont really care..i will never care what other people think, of me or my views..but i stand by them...and they are mine, and for me only..this is why i dont post them, and try to tell others, becuase everyone has there own, and im not one to try to change others..."

So tell me, why do you want to be a preacher. Doesn't that just contradicted yourself? Becoming a preacher and telling others about your beliefs in god. I don't think there should be any religion in the first place. Everyone should base their opinion on their own, and not some bible.

And if I wanted you to leave, I would had done so long ago.

[Laggy]

your very close to makeing me leave already.

like i said, this is my pace to get away from the preaching kenny, im not a preacher here, in life i am, but not on the forum,..and this is so i can keep the peace ..

[Saberstar]

That's nice.

I only speak the truth. I see nothing wrong with it. If you can't take it then tough luck. Seems like you're running away, which I don't think you should.

[nightsavior]

dang...i never even knew there was a religious debate. i'm also confused...kenny you said "that maybe so but your point of view is really lame." granted you're free to think that. as for getting into heaven...my views on ascension don't deal specifically with the image most people have of the after life. besides wasn't this about an rpg debate? lmao. i think theres a greater hidden joke here. lol. kenny your quite sly my friend. heh. heh. i wonder if anybody even knows what i'm talking about. most likely i'm just a raving lunatic. as for god punishing gays with aids that's stupid.(in my personal opinion anyway) straight people get aids too. sexual preference shouldn't damn someone to hell. if your a good person....good things await you whether your gay,straight,insane,normal or even purple with green dots. anyway that is what i believe. lol. if this is an "actual" argument...i think laguna has his right to defend his faith even if you don't agree.

[Wallie Wildo]

just stop it kenny damn are you an idiot leave him the hell alone we all know that if laggy leaves ef dies and i dont want him to leave because if he does i will and then everybody will or ef will die but either way ef dies unless you stop it
its obvious whos side im on but laggy doesnt want to argue you know i have closer beleifs to you kenny but laggy doesnt want to argue so that means im on his side belive me laggy has almost the oppisite views of me so just stop it kenny

mmm...:cheese

[Saberstar]

I'm not exactly forcing my opinions on him Night. All i'm saying is that what the bible has taught him etc is bs. I can't understand why people for once try and use their damn head and knowledge and think what's right and what's wrong.
All i'm saying is that, if you believe in what the bible said then do so. But don't go making up crap because you have a strong grudge against something. Ex: would be the whole god giving gays AIDs. I've told him about how AIDs a virus. You can get them from other species and plants, etc.

Anyway, Cacaw. I already told you this. If i wanted him to leave, I would had done so LONG ago. And I forgot how this argument started it.

I can't see how someone who thinks like this as well as done other crap in life going to heaven.
And if you're religious, then you should know that god treat all being as equals. Which i've told him about it before...
I know a friend who's as religious as Laggy is. Even he's agreeing with what I said. Well I guess this discussion doesn't matter all that much. Just realize that the bible is never right.

[Wallie Wildo]

this needs closed its turning into a flame war but kenny you are trying to push your beliefs an laggy

mmm...:cheese

[nightsavior]

methinks this belongs under "religion" not discussion. laguna has the right to believe what he does..so do you kenny. if you cannot agree then perhaps we need to get back to a more light hearted and neutral topic. debating is ok but not when feelings get hurt and one set of views infringes on someone elses. you're good people and ef needs you both. there now you can both unite and bash me for being a dirty "peace n love" hippy! lol. and yeah lath you're right. it was silly to get worked up over it. i think i was just super sensitive because i was harrassed by debt collectors today. lol.

[Zelphiel]

damn... I should really read the whole thread before I post...

guys... stop the arguement. If you want to continue it, start a debate thread in religion.

my 2 cents about the whole thing... in advance.

Laggy... Kenny does what he does, and thinks what he thinks because it makes him happy and it's what he believes is right.

Kenny... same as above.

There's no point in arguing over it.

[Saberstar]

but i'm not religious. <_< Well I used to...I think.

[Laggy]

1corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kindom of God? do not be deceved. Neither fornicators,nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, will intier the kindom of heaven"

thats the only one i can find right now, but in the bible, it says that God did make a curse on some sins, most of which are listed in the passege i just gave, it does not say it is aids, but it doesnt say it isnt, somewhere it talks alot about a curse that he gave to 2 men that layed togather..this is alot of time put togather with aids being it is the only thing alot of gays get..though that curse might be in this passege i just gave that they wont inter the kindom of heave, im not sure..but in the Bible and thats what i stand on, it so bluntly says that gays wont go to heaven

there you want me to put up my bible words kenny?..i did..

and now im done..im not bringing my views back in this..thats that,..talk about what i just said all you fuken want guys, i dont give a fuke..just a little more to push me over the fuken clif right now, leaveing is on my mind greatly...but for now..ill see what comes out of this, can any of you think of somthing to call me that i HAVNT been called before? i dont think it can be done...but im pissed right now, so for my love of Ef..i will stop for the time being

Edit: sorry lath i didnt see your post, but i stand by this one..and im pissed so that doesnt help anyone out right now...

[Zelphiel]

Edit: sorry lath i didnt see your post, but i stand by this one..and im pissed so that doesnt help anyone out right now...


It's ok.

This is the reason why I hardly ever talk about my beliefs with anyone.

[Saberstar]

Well, I can now see why I never bothered reading the bible.
God didn't wrote the bible. It's probably just another religious guy devoted to god who wrote it. What's written in the bible is yet based on his opinion on what god believe in.

[Laggy]

yeah me too lath..i tried not to talk about this, but i was pushed..i am sorry for anyone i pissed off just now,...kinda i guess...but like i said..im going to go cool off now =/

[Laggy]

and kenny, your right, the bible was indeed written by men, but it was written by men through God, and NOW im going to stop lol..theres my views have at them.

[Zelphiel]

ok... I'm splitting this into the religion forum.

someone else may want to comment on it...

[Saberstar]

you didn't split my other post here. you could delete the other one. I'll just repost it here.

"and just to add, in my views..on what you hate me for..you VS me (a preacher soon to be) going to heaven...i think i'd make it, but im not the one who can judge rather you do or not"

If you never said that, we would had never started this argument.
Plus, I don't really think the whole. "OMG god spoke to my in my dreams. This is what he told me.." then he starts writing out crap about what god told him. I don't think that's true....

oh and the only thing to make me happy is give me make-up sex. >:O

[nightsavior]

well i personally don't think the bible says being gay is wrong directly...unfortunatelly some christains(though not all mind you) "interpret" words by putting their own twist on them. sexual preference and religious preference are not what i judge a person by....i judge them by their actions and whether or not they are good hearted. and yes i think you should both make up and unite against a common foe...me,the dirty smelly hippy! lol.

[Zelphiel]

from a non religious point of view, a reason that ancient cultures would have condemned homosexuality is because it would put a dent in human population. this was a time when continuing the species was a very important thing... now it really isn't. I think we could stand to lose a few billion people.


*don't take that the wrong way... I'm just talking.

[Saberstar]

I wouldn't know or care..
But even until now. People still think they're better then others. And treat others in a wrongful way, because they're somewhat different from them.
Your sexuality, race, etc doesn't matter much, IMO. Since we're all human.
This is how or why humanity is corrupted.

[nightsavior]

yeah...even insects are more harmonious than humans. within the hive every insect has a purpose and every insect in that hive works towards the betterment of all. i wonder sometimes if humans were once pure but then we evolved and mutated into something we're not supposed to be like cancer cells.

[Laggy]

You should read the book of geneses nightsavior , I don’t know if you would agree with it, but having the poets hear, and wanting to understand purity, you might get a lot out of it, it tells about the fall of man, and how once pure, we fall into what it is we are today, I mean really..they didn’t even know they were naked

you all might not like the bible and such, but really, it is a book, you can read any book ..like LOTRs and not think its real, but its a book none the less, and very interrasting...

Songs of Solomon, is a great book of the bible, its full of poetry and that alone
It is where I get my inspiration to write, the first recorder poems are in this book..

just a thought =/

[Saberstar]

A book is a book. You don't know if it's true or not. People often confuse fantasy with reality.
Reason why I don't read much. <_<

[Laggy]

yes, but you guys that no nothing about this book, really no nothing...the stuff in this book has but proven time and time again, i would get some stuff to post but again, im not trying to preach here..but in many ways and by many types of people, this book has been proven true, even with me in my own life...the kind of guy i am most of you do not know to the fullist, because for the love i have to EF, i do not open up..i tell of my gaming side, and other sides too..but i keep God out of it, which i know i shouldnt but i do

you pissed me off so bad tonight kenny, cause i told you not to push my views..because i myself dont try to push my views on others, yes ill tell you how i feel outside of the forum, but i wasnt pushing my views on you, if you think i was you are wrong, because my views go way father then your mind could ever think, i am alot smarter then you think i am, but i keep alot of it away from here...push me again and that will change, all my views will come out and all stop being what i've made myself be, and start being who i really am, one that none of you yet know, and again, i keep my preaching out of the forums...

for now...

[nightsavior]

yes as i recall the devil tempted eve in the garden then eve convinced adam to eat the fruit of knowledge. it is an interesting tale...but i find it was written by a patriarchal stand point. it just seems like it was written as if it was mainly eve's fault and for whatever reason i don't like that. it's funny man tries so hard to create a boggie man or devil to blame all his sins on. but in reality man has only himself to blame. another strange thing about genesis is abel and caine. both offered their gifts to god...god preferred abel's sacrificial lamb over caine's fruits and vegetables. it seems to me god would have preferred caine's gift for he toiled in the fields and produced a plentiful harvest without taking an innocent life. pretty much when god favored the sacrificial lamb it seemed like he was saying "i reward thee who is willing to kill for me and spread my faith." why would god encourage killing? also if he is so divine why did he not love the gifts of both brothers equally? by choosing abel over caine god made caine jealous and caused him to kill his brother. why would a benevolent god do this? ahhh and let us not forget lillith who was the first woman god created for adam. the bible portrays her as dark and sinister...why you ask? simply because she would not yield to her male counterpart. to me genesis pretty much encourages ppl to kill for god and show women their place as inferior to men. sorry laggy but i'm not a fan of genesis as you can tell. lol.

[Saberstar]

Then perhaps it's time to show your true self, who you really are. You don't talk about it, only because of what others might think of you. But this is online. And besides, if they're your friends, then would somehow accept your opinion. I don't care if you hate people who are different then you. But like I said, some of the stuffs you told me was just complelty bs. That had pissed me off, for nearly a month. Just as of now that I have pissed you off. So you should now know how it felt like. I normally only stay mad at people for 3 days. But the convo we had on msn, was just...grr....i'll bite your wang off if you say that crap in my face.

[Laggy]

no night, eve was tricked..for adam it only took eve saying "try this" for that, it was man..not woman to be blamed

and kenny, i know i pissed you off..as you have me, but this is just stuff i'd rather keep out of the forums, becuase its between you and me, not everyone else that now has to read this

and i dont care what people think of me, i care about there feelings, though im sure you dont think i do, and if i did say what i want to say most the time (cause at one time or another everyone here has said somthing i didnt like) i'd get banned, and hurt someone at the same time, i'd rather leave EF then to do that, this is what you need to understand...all the members here at Ef now are like my brothers and sisters...back then it wasnt like that, id so i might not have said what i said

the mean thing that got me was this, when you came back to EF, in a post somewhere you said that me and you had got passed all that bs..but now the truth comes out, you didnt get passed a damn thing..you hald hate when i thought everything with us was ok, and for this i loose respect for you, if you dont like me, or hold somthing against me, tell me..dont say its ok, and let me think its ok..then bring it back up later..if nopthing else THAT is BS

[nightsavior]

well laggy its the general belief eve was "punished" for being seduced by satan and convincing adam to eat the fruit. according to some christains that is why women have their peroid. at least your a christain that aknowledges adam is just as much to blame as eve is. lol.

[Saberstar]

"in a post somewhere you said that me and you had got passed all that bs.."

I never said that, at least I don't think I did. I mention to Lades in a PM about leaving for a while. But I never mention the reason. None of the people knew the reason, really, I think. And remember when you said if I make a topic about the discussion we had, you'll leave? Okay, if I really do hate you, then I would had made the topic. Don't you think so?
I don't see a reason to hate some...because they have a different view then I do. I was just mad and pissed at your stupidity.

And as for Adam and Eve. Adam trusted Eve, that's probably why he ate the apple? It's not Adam's fault.

[Laggy]

ok, that Is why women have their peroid. and pain in giving birth in our belief, but man lost alot more because adam was fast to fail, he wasnt tricked..he just did it cause he wanted..ok, the fruit made it so eve or wemon got this, it was the fact that adam sinned...that made it so #1. got kicked out of thre gardon, and #2. they/we dont live forever now...

ill agree some of it isnt understand able, and some just soundss like BS, but i bielive it all word for word..if you know and understand what everything really is saying..

and kenny you did say somthing about it..look in ESM when talking to sabin and you said lie "laggy and me got passed our dissagreemint maybe me and you can too" not in the same words..but thats what i got out of what you said =/

[Saberstar]

that may be so. But not many knew what we're talking about anyway.
And what I meant was, I was no longer mad at you. Because things started out well when we came back, that's all. I never said I accept your opinion. -_-

And Replace Eve as Tiff and Adam as you. If Tiff gives you an apple. I'm sure you won't ask how or where she got it. Same with Adam. He trsut that the apple Eve gave him isn't from the forbidden tree or something. Since he would think that they both truely love god and would never touch the apple in the tree. So bascially, it's not Adam's fault.

[Laggy]

"And what I meant was, I was no longer mad at you."

thats what im saying,m you said then that pritty much your over it, but then you bring it back up and slap me in the face with somthing i thought was long gone, and thats not respectfull

and adam knew that it was from the tree, but he took it anyway, not out of love for eve, but out of waning to know all, and be like God, eve was tricked, adam was not, read it lol

[Saberstar]

How would you know? Those things were all made believe. At that time there was just Adam, Eve, God, and that...devil.

I never said I was over it. Even if I have, it would had been i've over getting mad at you. Plus, I am no longer mad, but that doesn't mean i won't talk about it if it gets brought up. -_- damn, use your head. Or do you want more sex?

[nightsavior]

it's all a matter of interpretation. reality is different for each of us because we all percieve things differently. what is my reality may not be someone elses. i'll just leave it at that. well guys i'm out! it's been interesting.

[Laggy]

no sex, like i;ve asways said...but all im saying is that it was kind of a shoke to me that you even would bring it up after sayingn it was over, and after everything being cool with us, then you say you like me or you would have done it along time ago, or some shiz,..well i think we can all see how much you like me,.

i said how many times, im not getting into this, and im not going to put my views on the forum, but you wouldnt stop, you made yourself, not me..look like the ass

[Saberstar]

And I have said many times that if you had never said this, this argument probably wouldn't had started.

"and just to add, in my views..on what you hate me for..you VS me (a preacher soon to be) going to heaven...i think i'd make it, but im not the one who can judge rather you do or not"

I've never really brought it up until you said that. At first it was just a little joke. I was simply mocking you. You're the one who assumed too much thinking that I still have a grudge on you. If I did, I wouldn't have fooled around joking with you. When I came back, we hadn't joke much.

[Laggy]

but before that you said that you had a better chance to going to heaven, thats why i said that...blam this on me all you want, but you are the one that kept at it, not me

[Saberstar]

No, I would blame the both of us. And I do believe I would have a higher chance going to heaven. >_> But as you already know, i'm not religious. So I don't exactly believe in heaven or hell. Thus it was more like a joke. -_-

[Laggy]

er..this was spliyt out of another thread which was pritty much only meant for a gameing debate, but not really meant for a debate rather then just talking about them, then me and kenny started fighting, and this thread if what you now have because of this....that what you wanted to know?..lol

[Tiffany]

i'm mainly w/laggy on this but to the nonbelievers: even if there was no God, which i believe there is but still...could it really hurt so much to believe in something like that...something that would make u do good in the world..and help u to be a better person? to even help u have a more positive outlook on life? i think not...i was almost an atheist b4 i met laggy..most of my friends are...they're all into anarchy and thinking the devil is cool and evilness is cool and all...not all of them...but most...and i was almost like that til i got w/laggy...so instead of fighting his views so much some of u should really listen to him...

[idgaf rpgfan]

...i was almost an atheist b4 i met laggy..most of my friends are...they're all into anarchy and thinking the devil is cool and evilness is cool and all...not all of them...but most...and i was almost like that til i got w/laggy...so instead of fighting his views so much some of u should really listen to him...

As an athiest I have one comment on that, if they believe in the devil, they are not athiest. Athiests don't believe in any higher power, none, God, the Dveil, Buddah, Alha (sorry, don't know how to spell that one :confused ), etc.

And if you two have kissed and made up, great, we want both of you here at EF. If not, take the argument to the Gates, I'm OK with opinions, but stating something as fact when it is unproveable is not acceptable.

[Laggy]

i understand that your a mod here and all, but a admin moved this thread here so that it can be just what it is, so really, you have no power to tell us to take it to the gates, its in this forum becuase its a religious debate, rpgfan

and tiffy was saying that some of her friends are athiest and others are devil lovers

and some are fake want to be athiests that think being athiest is devil worshup =/

[idgaf rpgfan]

i understand that your a mod here and all, but a admin moved this thread here so that it can be just what it is, so really, you have no power to tell us to take it to the gates, its in this forum becuase its a religious debate, rpgfan

and tiffy was saying that some of her friends are athiest and others are devil lovers

and some are fake want to be athiests that think being athiest is devil worshup =/

When some of your posts have the "I'm taking my ball and my bat and going home" theme, it's not religion:off topic. And if Tiff wants to clarify her statement she can, she doesn't need a defender.

[Laggy]

Ef gets off topic man, but either way in all we were still talking about this in a religious maner, and i have any rights to tell anyone what tiffy means, being she had to go, and doesnt see every post

stop acting like we'er fighting here man, i've done nothing..if you'd like, me and you can go to the gates...but i've had no prob with you, im just talking here..you dont need to get ell

[Lancet Jades]

idgaf, this IS a religious debate. If you really feel that it is a flame war, move it to the gates, if not, then leave it be.

[Laggy]

it was ended though, me and kenny just..stoped...lath moved it here so others can post on it, and yeah it might start up again, and yea there might be some spam/flame/offtopicness...but who the hell cares

[Lancet Jades]

if there are going to be flames, then it should be moved to the gates, or anything goes if there's gonna be flames mixed in w/ intelligent debate.

[Zelphiel]

I don't think that it should be moved to the gates of hell, as it is now. If it does start to turn into a flame war then by all means, move it there.

[Rick_dowg2099]

i dont know how old this thread is and dont know if its cool for me to post here .but here gose ...eather way you look at it kenny is going for something that most people think is rong and sinfull as for me i think every one should be burned at the stake but thats just cus of something that happend to me when i was little..as for my bro hes going for what he has knows and SEEN yes SEEN his whole life and KNOWS is right ..but untill the end of time there will be arguments as this, but atless go read and find out about what you are bashing....i bash gay people cus its agenst what i KNOW to be rong and iv never knows a cool gay person there all twisted and sick in there own secret ways .....but as i said earlyer today when i was high ,i dont like to argue its a wast of my time and i really dont feel like argueing with a possessed person lolol im going to go get high now so im not posting on this again any time soon

[Zelphiel]

How would you know? Those things were all made believe. At that time there was just Adam, Eve, God, and that...devil.




actually it never says that the serpent is the devil.... just the serpent.

and Adam refers to mankind, not one person.

just thought I'd add that... :bandito

[nightsavior]

yeah i think alot of genesis is written to be metaphorical and symbolic instead of actual fact. sometimes you gotta look at things beyond face value to see their hidden meaning.

[Laggy]

Adam is one person, so is eve, but they STAND for mankind, and it does say somthing about eve being tricked by the devil, but it doesnt say it in genesis, in other books they do indeed call the snake satan..there are 2 ways to make this seem right, and 2 ways people have learned it to be true, #1. the snake only stood for the devil but was really just a snake and in calling the snake devil they are saying that the devil is a snake (as in he's tricky and cant be trusted) #2. it really was the devil but he took form as a snake, but in this way they say that it wasnt a snake like we know a snake,..it was just..somthing that couldnt fit any other name but snake...

[Zelphiel]

I don't think that anything in the bible, or any other religious text is literal. It's all metaphors.

[Laggy]

some of it is metaphoricle but when it is, it pritty much tells you, why would some of it be, and tell you..then the rest of it be and not tell you?...

everyone thinks for themselfs and hass there own views on what the bible is or stands for, but from what i've seen, and got out of reading it..its all true and facts..but thats just me..