Sword training

[Dark Marmosett]

Well I decided to pull out the swords in my basement and try using them. They aren't that good sad to say. I would have expected them to hack and and cut better than they did....they barely cut through a cardboard box...but that box was pretty heavy duty cardboard I couldn't even stab through it with a screwdriver. Myabe I should try it on something living. Hmm.....*thinks of something worthless and expendable*

[Night]

Sounds like a job for Yvl... jk

but seriously, you have swords in your basement?

[Dark Marmosett]

Yeah..otherwise I wouldn't have made the post. >.>

[Benzine]

Practise invisibilty before swordsmanship.

[Dark Luther]

When you train enough correctly in your taijutsu ( body movement while fighting ) - the swordsmanship and the invisibility just come in naturally....

That's very interesting though Nanashi, what type of swords are they?

[Day]

...Hiyah!?

[Dark Marmosett]

Medieval knight swords. They weigh about 20 pounds I think. But thats just me thinking that. THey are kind of light, but when it comes to wieght you only know two things, Heavy and not heavy.

[Baka]

Most swords now or days suck. You need to find a real good sword-smith to get the good, high quality stuff that cuts everything in one swipe. btw this reminds me of that video on Ebaums World with the QVC guy stabbing himself when he's trying to test the durability but hitting it against the table and the blade just breaks in half and flips back into him :chuckle

[Dark Marmosett]

>.> As if many people like that now a days exist.

[Dark Luther]

That's not very true, there are many makers that create useful combat ready swords - specially swords as dense as medieval swords.

The trick is just depending on what material you use for the sword -
using carbon steel is one of the main parts of it.
Stainless steel doesn't tend to hold out...

[Lt.Zechs]

Well im not going to get in this arugment lol but ill tell everyone i am a trainer for swords i learn from my master and then with his permission i train others who are willing to devote their whole day to train.I train mainly with Katanas and all samuri swords and im very good at it.if you want a good fight get a sword and come join me one day.Ill put you to the test!

[Dark Luther]

Not to sound a little skeptical by asking...
But what style is it particularly.....?

[Lt.Zechs]

Well not really any style Luther but my master does acutally know the hetein misturegy style sorry for bad spelling but its the style kenshin uses.and yes it does exist and yes i do know some of it.

[Hikari Tsukishiro]

Well not really any style Luther but my master does acutally know the hetein misturegy style sorry for bad spelling but its the style kenshin uses.and yes it does exist and yes i do know some of it.

Hiten Mitsurugi Ryu? I couldn't find any info on H. Mitsurugi being real. Do you know any links?

Who is your sensei then?

[Lt.Zechs]

no i dont know any links but my sensei is shenhan sugimoto.hes my other sensei's master,i have two lol.i feel special.

[Dark Luther]

You have got to be bloody joking me....
Hiten Mitsurugi Ryu, which is based ( fictionally ) on Furanui Kenjutsu, is not a real style.....by no means....,
even Furanui Kenjutsu is itself fictional for the most part....
with more concept than reality.

Frankly - I always considered the style in theory to be utterly stupid and ignore the realities of sword combat - ( one of the reasons I respect Iaijutsu and Ninpo- and not Kendo or many of the eishin ryu schools ). But that's aside from the point and I have been quite rude in my disbelief.

Look, I've practiced swords, I've taught people technique, I've studied the history for a long time, so forgive me for being extremly skeptical. None the less, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
You simply have to explain this though.

What type of Katas do you practice....?
What type of Waza do you derive from it...?
What principles in sword fighting are involved in your art...?
And what is the theory behind this Hiten Mitsurugi style you speak of....? ( if you don't know completly, explain what you do know ).

If you wish to instead send me your answer by PM,
as some schools find themselves under the need ( though I find it arbetrary ) to keep things more secret....
I'll understand.

Again,
Forgive me for being extremly skeptical, but I would expect someone to be able to account for their statement of knowing swordsmanship. If I appear a bit rude, my give sincerest apology.....
...I don't wish to cause an argument or ill spirits....

[Baka]

i dont want to hear that it's a secret art and that you can't say anything about it. Me and Luther train in the same art. This year we're focusing on kenjutsu as one of the themes and I've been reading up on as much as I can about the different styles. I mean no disrespect if you can prove that Hiten Mitsurugi is a real style, but if it were, it'd only be based on the quickness of the draw and the low leverage for the strike.

[Dark Marmosett]

I seriosuly doubt tommy that I could swing the sword fast enough to actually do battle with it. It is a big and heavy sword.

[Lt.Zechs]

DUDE andrew it isnt a big fucking sword okay i use fucking katans not some big ass sword.and plus you may think its fictional but dude you havent been everywhere and you damn sure havent known every style there is so just do us all a favor and drop it.and the style im talking of no hell no you cant defy spends like kenshin but you can strike so fast the opponent didnt ever see it coming therefor couldnt block because ive done it!

[Dark Luther]

So in essense....your completly dodging the question and not giving any specifics.

In reality - I don't know every style out there.....I doubt anyone knows. But I do know what's fictional and where these fictional arts derive from.

In fact, I even know what your talking about -
it's just basic Iaijutsu. Drawing the sword in a very low and awkard stance ( or a varied form ) in such extreme speed the opponent can't counter.

So if anyone out there who actually knows real sword fighting is watching - they pretty much know this isn't a style - it's just conditioning and reflexes. In fact, the theory of Hiten Mitsurugi and the "art" it was based on was basicly flawed as it had no defence, placed you in a ridiculously stupid stance, and relied on getting the first strike ( which is not the essense of iaido where two opponents duel face to face, but in fact barging into my art's territory of stealth ).


Look, I have given you the benefit of the doubt -
and I'll even ask again.
Actually describe your art, give details and actual technique - even in the basic kata or waza level - or I fear your argument doesn't really seem like much.

No dis-respect..... yet - but you have stated you practice an art that is completly fictional, and is based on a mostly fictional art. If you do in fact practice this art - and it is a realistic style,
I would think you could live up respectively to your art and show it as a truth and dis-spell the doubts about it.

My art has suffered critic, ridicule, and discredit at the hands of frauds and charlatans. It is only by our open policy, our ability to be honest and welcome to discuss with everyone the details of our art - that we have the respect we have now.....
I believe all arts deserve that chance....

....So, if you can answer the earlier questions....
perhaps actually talk details....
like where did your instructor learn this art....
What schools does the art derive from.....
What are it's principles....

I ask this respectively...., if you are in fact honest and take offense to this - I apologize. But one must live up to their claims, and if part of a practice and style - be up to defend and speak for it in a respectful manner....

[Lt.Zechs]

master shows me damnit i dont ask questions.and i know what you mean by the low stance and quick strikes,thats what im fucking learning.jesus.and about basicly cheating heres how i see it,if we ever end up in a war,the sword is gonna be my first choice unless gundams are invented.which i highly doubt.and when your facing an enemy i dont think your gonna wanna go up against a machine gun with a face off of sword vs gun it wont work unless your quick but ill tell you that if you wanna ever find out what im talking about then look me up next time your in perry florida and ill show you how quick i can take you down.NOW ARGUMENT DROPPED NO USE CONTINUEING THIS.ITS OVER ALL'S SAID AND DONE.you wanna find out then come to me and ill show you.

[Travisblaze]

I used to have a sword that I hung on my wall but the cops came over looking for me and told my aunt it was illegal so they um kinda stole it from me and threw it in the evidence locker so now I train with plastic lightsabers. I'm pretty bad ass at it.

[Dark Marmosett]

Trying to swing a 20 pound sword around fast is very hard. Just trying to get it to go is hard. I don't see why your making such a big deal of it anyway.

[Dark Luther]

lol, I doubt it's 20 lb.....but I do know it's hard Nanashi....
The trick is not to use it as a light sword and swing fast, but create a strike - by - ready action system.

I don't deal too much with large swords - but the group I'm in teaches actors how to use them. The weight keeps you from reacting as you could with a rapier or katana - so what one would do is strike with the sword knowing they would dodge a certain way - then as you swing use the momentum given by gravity and enertia and strike towards that area - and then again and again - without stopping to pause. It's almost like chess - the first move won't get them, you just attack and corner them....

--------------------------------------------------------

Now....
Mr. Zechs
If you wish to no longer argue your point, that's fine with me.
Yet I will point out that given a second chance, you still failed to say anything with substance.
In fact, I fear to say all you've done is ramble about gundams and something about facing a machine gun with a sword....
things that have nothing to do with what I asked.

All I asked - respectively may I place -
was details and theory of your art. Surely your teacher doesn't simply teach you things and not explain anything.

Even so, I'm not asking the philosophy behind it, just the bare theory or feeling. Or for that matter, what you do know -
such as what the techniques are like - or the kata.....or the waza derived from it....

From what you described, all your art is actually...
...is drawing the sword reallly really fast....really really low....
So in conclusion - it appears all your art is....is well,
...it's just Iaijutsu or Iaido with a bad posture.
Of course - Iaijutsu and Iaido ( which I whole heartedly respect for what it is ) is not a full combat theory, but more an art like painting, and tea ceremony ( which I also do and reccomend to any martial artists...).

My wish was not to aggravate, as if I succeeded in that - I would achieve no answers and simply anger someone.
But if you no longer wish to discuss this point - that is your choice.
I will state though - you have failed to answer anything with substance - give any details about your art - or even show yourself to know anything about swordsmanship for that matter.

Since your young, I'll give you a bit of advise -
whenever you state you know about swordsmanship - expect to be taken criticly by others who do as well - specially when you mention a style which is known to be fictional. If you wish respect for yourself and your art - honest and earnest discussion, and speaking as a true respectable student of an art will suffice most of the time....

.....not challenges...

............Though for that matter, I do actually live in Florida.
But I do fear your not worth the drive....
...I've already beat up enough kenjutsu guys,
you can ask Baka about the details....

[Lt.Zechs]

*sighs*andrew i belive i said drop it so just drop it okay im not going to keep arguing about it.

[Zelphiel]

my experience with swords is minimal. nearly all of my martial arts training was weaponless. of course, all you ef vets already knew that from those old martial arts discussions. :P

[Dark Luther]

Yeah, but from personal expirience,
I've come to see that good hand to hand training usually carries over quite well into armed combat.

In many cases, it's even better.....


Oh, and and balze - sorry about that happening bro...,
you did get robbed. Unless you live outside of the US, there is no law concerning those types of weapons inside of the house - specially on a stand....

[Zelphiel]

Yeah, but from personal expirience,
I've come to see that good hand to hand training usually carries over quite well into armed combat.

In many cases, it's even better.....

I can see some ways that it could. a lot of the basic principals are similar.

[Dark Marmosett]

It is a big sword. Two hander.

[Baka]

It is a big sword. Two hander.
lol everyones talking about sword training and techniques, but you're still talking about your broad sword O.o :)

WOOHOO It's Wednesday and that means Weapons class. We'll be working with swords. I'm curious what we'll learn today.

[Dark Luther]

lol, We''ll....he did make the thread for that reason.
Like I said, there's tactics and technique even for the use of those type of large swords.

It even depends on what type of such large sword it is -
hand and a half, Landesknechte , Flamberge.....
all depends on the style of it's make.....

[Baka]

lol, We''ll....he did make the thread for that reason.
Like I said, there's tactics and technique even for the use of those type of large swords.

It even depends on what type of such large sword it is -
hand and a half, Landesknechte , Flamberge.....
all depends on the style of it's make.....
yes he did but it says Sword Training. I expect more technique and stuff like that than going on about a broad sword and how big and heavy it is. It's like me saying I LIKE SWORDS THAT GO CHOP >.< I do though :paranoid

I remember when I first learned how to do the kata using a Bo, it's very different than doing it unarmed. I'm trying to figure out the kata for using a sword now :( Not as easy.

[Zelphiel]

hand and a half

I prefer bastard sword :P

just sounds meaner.

[Dark Luther]

Yes Baka,
but when you turn the strike with the Bo, you rotate with your hips to give strength to the strike,
just like we do in our punches.....

Also, after you strike, you end in kamae - another factor important in taijutsu.....

[Dark Marmosett]

I prefer bastard sword

just sounds meaner.

Not only that..but it sounds funny as well.