Do you Believe Prayer Changes things? [Archive]

Seraph Zero

10-19-2005, 01:18 PM

I was just wonder how many of you believe that praying changes the outcome of things that you pray about?
In a word, no. Prayer works on the assumption that there is a god. However... well, this will just lead into another argument, so, in short...

No, prayer doesn't work.

Kal

10-19-2005, 01:21 PM

I most certainly do. There have been things where i've prayed, and its changed my life.

Zelphiel

10-19-2005, 01:39 PM

it probably does on a personal level for some people.

William

10-19-2005, 01:51 PM

I don't really believe in God, but I do still believe that prayer does sometimes work.

Prayer gives some people hope. Hope that things will get better, and that their prayers will be heard then answered. Having a bit of hope is better than having nothing at all. Hope often leads to more optimistic feelings rather than completely pessimistic ones. And I think your attitude and way of thinking does have an effect on things that may happen in ones life.

Qween B

10-19-2005, 01:53 PM

no it does not at all. in my opinion ofcourse

Travisblaze

10-19-2005, 02:42 PM

Sometimes it does sometimes it doesn't That's what I think

Pinkie Pie

10-19-2005, 03:21 PM

Lancet Jades

10-19-2005, 03:30 PM

Prayer does work. Prayer, however, is not as narrow as simply folding your hands and asking God for help. Prayer (in my opinion), is a form of meditation, in which you open your spirit to whatever you believe in. I believe that prayer has incredible abilities when used correctly. Of course, if you sit there and ask God for more money, or a new car, or something equally superficial, it's not going to "work", because that's not what prayer is about. I think that prayer can at least spiritually heal a person, if nothing else. If you don't want to attribute it to a higher power, attribute it to the power of the human mind.
Thats more or less how I view it. I believe prayer does work, and I've personally seen it work, but you can't just sit back and expect God to magically fix a problem for you. Personally, when I pray, I don't pray for God to fix some problem for me, I pray for the strength to fix that problem myself. True, I might have had it anyways, but at the very least, it gives me more confidence. And honestly, God or not, isn't that prayer changing something? (The entire basis of this thread)

The Deity

10-19-2005, 04:18 PM

Yes, I have been blessed with seeing the power of prayer several times in my life. I am fully aware of the capability of it.

Sassafrass Raistimass

10-19-2005, 04:24 PM

Only if the god in question is mind-fuckingly narcissistic.

Pinkie Pie

10-19-2005, 05:39 PM

Only if the god in question is mind-****ingly narcissistic.

How so? I think that regardless of the existance of the god in question, praying on something can at the very least give someone some reflection on their current situation. It may not cause a miracle (or it may, you never know), but at the very least it can do some good.

Lancet Jades

10-19-2005, 05:43 PM

Only if the god in question is mind-fuckingly narcissistic.
And why is that? I don't see how that has any bearing on whether prayer would work.

Sassafrass Raistimass

10-19-2005, 05:53 PM

How so? I think that regardless of the existance of the god in question, praying on something can at the very least give someone some reflection on their current situation. It may not cause a miracle (or it may, you never know), but at the very least it can do some good.Not anymore than just thinking about the problem normally would do, but that's hardly the intent of the question anyway. If it were, then it'd be a very silly question, because everything you do changes something. For example, if I ate a cookie right now, it would change what I'd feel like having for dinner. If I read this here paper in front of me about irresponsible pet owners, it would change what I thought about pet owners (however small the change). The intent of the question is "Does prayer directly change things," and if he intended anything else then he should have clarified.

And why is that? I don't see how that has any bearing on whether prayer would work.A god that chooses to help the world you don't need to pray to, and praying to a god who chooses to not help the world would be useless. If a god decides to do something only after you start worshipping Him five times a day, that means He's narcissistic.

Lancet Jades

10-19-2005, 05:59 PM

A god that chooses to help the world you don't need to pray to, and praying to a god who chooses to not help the world would be useless. If a god decides to do something only after you start worshipping Him five times a day, that means He's narcissistic.

Who said anything about worshipping God five times a day? We're talking prayer, as in, asking God for help when that help is needed. What's wrong with asking God for that help? Last time I checked, creating something doesn't require the creator to know every last problem that exists within the creation, and to pre-emptively fix it. If that WERE the case. we'd live in a utopia.

Its my belief that God will help anyone who asks, regardless of their beliefs on religion, regardless of whether they're a hardened criminal on death row, or some goodie two shoes who spends all his extra time at church fervently praying. If He would grant or deny a prayer in someone's time of need merely on the basis of stuff like that, then yes, I'd agree He is narcissistic.

Sassafrass Raistimass

10-19-2005, 06:19 PM

Who said anything about worshipping God five times a day?Muslims. :-p
Last time I checked, creating something doesn't require the creator to know every last problem that exists within the creation, and to pre-emptively fix it.No, it doesn't, but we're also speaking of a god capable of micromanaging. I'm not saying He has to help, I'm just saying that His helping shouldn't have much to do with people asking. I'm not advocating a divine philosophy, just defining one.

Besides, I took the question as more (mind you, this is less sure than my previous declaration about the question) talking about physical things. Not like money, or a car, but "my mom has cancer, please cure it," or stuff like that, which people claim prayer does.

Pinkie Pie

10-19-2005, 06:20 PM

Not anymore than just thinking about the problem normally would do, but that's hardly the intent of the question anyway. If it were, then it'd be a very silly question, because everything you do changes something. For example, if I ate a cookie right now, it would change what I'd feel like having for dinner. If I read this here paper in front of me about irresponsible pet owners, it would change what I thought about pet owners (however small the change). The intent of the question is "Does prayer directly change things," and if he intended anything else then he should have clarified.

I classify prayer in the same catagory that I do meditation, and treat it as such. Therefore, I think even if prayer doesn't directly cause miracles to happen, I still think that praying gives a person a chance to reflect on the problem or situation that they are in. They may find an answer that they would not have otherwise found (be it god "speaking" to them, or just coming up with it on their own), or at the very least, they may simply feel a bit more at ease about it. The question isn't if prayer changes everything, or makes drastic changes all the time. It's whether or not it's effective at all, and I do believe that it is.

Lancet Jades

10-19-2005, 06:28 PM

No, it doesn't, but we're also speaking of a god capable of micromanaging. I'm not saying He has to help, I'm just saying that His helping shouldn't have much to do with people asking. I'm not advocating a divine philosophy, just defining one.

Besides, I took the question as more (mind you, this is less sure than my previous declaration about the question) talking about physical things. Not like money, or a car, but "my mom has cancer, please cure it," or stuff like that, which people claim prayer does.

Well, you have a point, but besides what I've stated, I also believe prayer isn't some magic "cure-all" for any and all problems any person ever faces. Its one thing to ask God for help with a problem, but its another thing to sit back and expect God to fix any problems you have. I can understand someone sitting back and praying for God to cure themselves or a loved one of cancer, but that doesn't absolve them from having to do all they can to cure it anyways (through whatever cancer treatments are avaliable to them).

Sassafrass Raistimass

10-19-2005, 06:29 PM

I classify prayer in the same catagory that I do meditation, and treat it as such. Therefore, I think even if prayer doesn't directly cause miracles to happen, I still think that praying gives a person a chance to reflect on the problem or situation that they are in. They may find an answer that they would not have otherwise found (be it god "speaking" to them, or just coming up with it on their own), or at the very least, they may simply feel a bit more at ease about it. The question isn't if prayer changes everything, or makes drastic changes all the time. It's whether or not it's effective at all, and I do believe that it is.*shrug* Then prayer is no more useful than having fifteen minutes to myself.

I've gotta go now, because I've got way, way too much shit to write by Monday to be obsessing over this right now. I'll be back then.

Laggy

10-20-2005, 07:22 PM

I think that they do, and being a person who believes in God, this may sound bad... but I think that in a lot of cases, its the hope that we get from praying that helps us, I have never seen God on a level to where I could say he reached down and changed things, but he changed them by giving me hope.

Lycanthroat

10-21-2005, 10:01 AM

Personally, I look at it this way.

In the Holocaust, I'm betting at least some of the Jews prayed to God. They probably weren't just clapping their hands together and hoping. They probably were begging for their lifes, thinking they'd lived as good as they could and that they had lived God's way and if not, could It at least save their family or loved ones, praying they wouldn't be dissected while awake, the victims of rape or live castration or the feared gas chambers. Did It help? 6 million Jews were killed, 12 million altogether if you include blacks, homosexuals, disabled people and so on. And I'm betting some of those prayed pretty damn hard. So, in my mind, no. Prayer doesn't seem to help.

Then again, in some strange way, people do seem to feel that prayer helps them make an important decision or something, but I think it's purely a psychological phenomona.

And Raist, good point about a narcissistic god. I hadn't thought of that before...

Dark Marmosett

10-22-2005, 02:32 PM

Yes I do. If I pray for the safety or the wellness of others. And is does work.

night sk8r

10-22-2005, 11:12 PM

Yes indeedy

Codi

10-22-2005, 11:53 PM

I do not, I believe the only way to change the outcome of any said event is to change it yourself.

Kaffee

10-23-2005, 01:45 AM

Matthew 21:21-22 - Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."

James 4:2 - You do not have, because you do not ask God.

It's true prayer changes things and if we don't pray very little if anything will happen.

Dark Marmosett

10-23-2005, 02:38 PM

Smite the nonbeleivers!

Sonic

10-26-2005, 12:21 PM

I don't know if changes anything or not. When I was a kid, I'd go to church so I prayed alot but I don't remember it doing anything spectacular. This might sound strange but I think the pets I'v had and my Mom, Dad, Bro, and Grandma have gave me luck. Just looking at my cat,Little Bit, makes me feel happy. My family is always going to be there for me.When I feel like the world is crashing on me my family and my animals will always be there, no matter the situation.

Night

10-26-2005, 12:32 PM

Being prayed for helps more than praying, knowing that people pray for you can boost your confidence and such, and studies have shown that people who have been prayed for have had swifter medical recoveries and survival rates (dont quote me on this, its secondhand knowledge, id love to see proof/disproof)
I dont think prayer workds, I think knowledge that peopleare praying for you makes the difference. I believe that you work for yourself more than your (alleged) god works for you.