As for me

[The Wang Master]

What is it that makes everything I say, seem like I'm trying to offend someone. When it comes to writing I think I am rather skilled to a point, and that most of the newbies to the writing seen are not yet mature enough in that particular skill. If you suck I will tell you, I'm not going to mince words and dance around it. I guess some don't want to except that they could stand to improve alot. Many take their writing too personal and don't realise that other people are going to read it. I know we all hate typos, well that's how I see bad writing, a bunch of typos that need to be corrected.

The way critiqueing works is as follows

1. Take care of grammar flaws
2. Rethink the subject and if it works
3. Rewrite it
4. Now focus on the good things
5. Rewrite it
6. Look over again
7. Say the words as you rewrite it

That is the most efficient way and most common way I've been told to take criticism. Once you get those pesky grammar errors out of the way you should try and develop the story. The first draft is usually just the general overview of what you want to say. That is why you have to poke holes it in, to find what parts are needed to keep the sail intact and what parts will alow your story to continue on it's journey.

Any other problems you have with me post here so I may get an idea of the sentiment of you people.

[Chaos Theory]

lol I didnt see this coming

I agree with you, you shouldnt sugar coat crap and tell me its pudding

how shall one improve if one cannot stand for their work to be judged

[Laggy]

heh, i like that...but holly dont think that its somthing you have to change, its just him giving you a idea...(just saying so noone gets mad lol) i understand fairy in when he says you should go over it and go over it, change whats needed to be change..then go over it some more lol..its good tips indeed

[nightsavior]

fairy you should let her have the liberty of rewriting it. unless she specifically asks you to be her editor you shouldn't meddle with her work. i know if someone took a picture i drew and just redrew it using their own style i'd be peeved unless they got my permission to do so. i'm not trying to attack ya fairy...you know i love ya man...it's just i think everyone is entitled to have a chance to grow without being sunk even before they set sail.

[Laggy]

it wasnt rewriting her work..it was showing her what he meant by what he said...he isnt telling her to use what he just wrote, only to show her what he means by going over it and fixing some things..and how just cause he seems mean doesnt mean he isnt trying to help...or somthing like that

[nightsavior]

hey criticism is cool but u gotta balance it by telling ppl what they do good as well so they feel inspired to keep trying. if you only tell ppl the negative about everything it lowers their self esteem. now me, i just get pissed and come back with something so good ppl shut up. but i'm 26 and i can take quite a beating(though you better believe i will hit the person back who is giving me the beating. lol) just keep in mind some of the ppl that post here are young or trying their hand at something for the very first time. the way i see it if you focus only on the flaws of everything you miss out on the simplistic beauty of what you are judging. i guess i'm just one of those glass is half full kinda guys. as for this post i don't care about its errors. i'm a slow typer so i rather skip the cap lock button between sentences. to me so long as you write with heart and style that's the most important thing. grammar,prononcuation,structur e,and punctuation thus come in at a close second but only because every college kid and professor this side of america are snutty grammar rules lawyers that judge a written work by it's p's and q's instead of the creative way in which it is written .

[The Wang Master]

Well here I am saying all this **** about writing conventions yet I had nothing to back it up. I simply redid it to show I know what I'm talking about.

If I was to redo it I'd redo the whole thing and not use some of the words. Cow-girl errks me. It just doesn't flow right. It breaks it up. I tried to use soft sounding words. Mixing alliteration with general description. The tone of the whole thing is soft and the alliteration makes it flow much better. I tried to keep to my idea that less is more. I do believe you get an image with what little I used to describe her.

Plus the words I used set a tone that this is female, or is it a male gazing upon a female. embracing her hips

Mind you I wouldn't find that acceptable in a final draft.

(I never said the story was bad, just the writing needed some work. . .and you need to make me care about your characters.)

[nightsavior]

man. fairy you should be more considerate. listen man you are in college. has it occured to you yet black angel might be younger thus does not have your level of learning?...or perhaps that she is trying creative writing for the first time? listen i have read books by the dozen...and compared to what has been pubilished this work in progress IS good and has potential. yeah it has flaws but do you think lord of the rings was perfect the first time tolkien wrote it? most writers redo their works a few dozen times before it's ready. this is proably her first time writing it down. sorry if i ruffled some feathers boys but i stick to my guns. i like you fairy and i like laguna but hey that doesn't mean i have to always agree with you guys.lol.

[loki777_1]

wow... you all seem to complain a lot. Fairy was obviously just trying to help make the work better, not put it down. Yet some of you seem to be a bit too sensitive. STOP BEING SO SERIOUS!

[nightsavior]

you're entitled to your opinion loki. and yeah i'm very empathic when it comes to peoples feelings. personally i think certain ppl while meaning well are also somewhat insensitive. but hey that too is just an opinion.

[nightsavior]

ah but my good friend...every writer writes differently and opinions on what is good writing and what is not varies greatly from individual to individual. for example. most love shakespeare...i cannot stand sakespeare. also many think tolkien's lord of the rings trilogy was very dry and far too wordy in some places yet i love those books. it's all personal preference fairy. my my this has been an interesting debate!(drinks more caffeine loaded mountain dew.) actually i'm enjoying this immensly how about you fairy? lol.

[The Wang Master]

I hate stupid people that don't understand unless I have to do some hand holding.

My whole point was giving suggestions on the next draft. Rather than saying "what should I do to make this better?"

They can now say "I guess I should try and make this more succinct to what I want to say."

I don't know why this was such a big deal. I was just giving basic criticism. I've said it before, the first draft is usually just a general idea, not is the time to make it more concise and too the point. Use imagery and words to paint the scene and the emotions.

[nightsavior]

it's a big deal? i thought we were just having a stimulating debate. lol. i wasn't really angry i was just expressing my opinion. that of course doesn't mean it's written in stone.

[The Wang Master]

I will not touch LOTR because patrick says that it is wordy. He didn't say it was pointless wordy. I've read wordy books and looking back it needed those words, either for sybolism or a tone or just for smart reading to help expand your vocabulary.

But after the first draft you have to be able to choose your words and not just put words down. You have to have a reason, you just have to.

Get it into your head, there is a level of standards. Publishers and editors make money off of this standard. Plus, LOTR kicks ass at how great and big it is. If it was wordy and simply about somebody's day at school. . .you should read Speak. You'll see what I mean.

[nightsavior]

standards really? hmmm. you should see the books of shoddy quality that have gotten published. lol. and some of your works have an abstract quality fairy. you are not always direct and to the point with your writing. also i have noticed at times you do not take kindly to criticism either not that i'm judging you because hey i admit i get emotional if someone critiques my art without saying what is good too. stories are as the saying goes...what is junk to one man is treasure to another. i liked black angel's story as it was. but you are entitled to have your views whatever they maybe.

[The Wang Master]

well I guess since i'm a mod now, when the author comes back with the addition or revision I'll split the debate out. Because you shouldn't be debating in someone else's thread. Unless they are present.

If I hurt feelings, I really don't give a ****. I shouldn't hold someone down because of their age, and pat them on the head and say "good job, for a 16 year old." Do you know how belittleing that is?

You spout about potential, I figured it wasn't worth mentioning considering the big "DUH!" that would follow the comment.

The good things are there, what help would be needed if it's good?

[nightsavior]

if you do not care you shouldn't be a mod nuff said. and if that comment gets me banned oh well. (shrugs) as for making this another thread..why? i haven't gotten off topic we are still discussing black angel's story. i think it is good..not just by the standards of a 16 year old..but good as in with just alittle tweaking a general audience teen- adult would immensly enjoy reading it ( i enjoyed reading it simply how it was). that is all i will say on this matter. black angel keep at it!

[Laggy]

it wont get you banned lol...bit its like this..you have me which is said to be to nice,..and him which is said to be to mean..as a team of mods at this forum we are a great one lol....

and fairy IMO if you split this..and you should..put it in that "as of me" thread of yours lmao..they are both turning into the same thing! lol

[The Wang Master]

Well I don't like criticism from people who are idiots. Most of my poems of late are driven by "assignments" and practice.

The questions remains, would you buy that book? Did you ever consider it as, I have a snes and it is awesome. . .holy ****ing christ look at the graphics on that PS2. That treasure could also be like a loaf of bread to a starving family, or a blue duck.

It's all a game of standards, and we should all try to live beyond them. I liked the story too, but the writing needs work.

I prefer to exist in the abstract, you don't need pants there.

Would you like me
to light you on fire

Do you think
you deserve it

Well it's not going to happen
I'm all out of jellybeans

[Laggy]

see but another thing is some people like fantasy books, and some like horror, it is all up to who you are..everyone has there likes and dislikes and everyone has there style..some may truly be better then others..but sometimes you do have to look at what the writer was TRYING to say rather then what it says...lol..

[The Wang Master]

Now who's on the defensive?

I don't give a **** if I'm a mod or not. I just say things and people can take it either way, good or bad. You choose to take bad. Because you gay like that.

I'm going to assume you are a moron now. Yep all moroninoly. I say this because you are no longer helping black angel but debating me. Saying keep at it does not save the sinking ship. I also think you are faking your enthusiasm. I don't think I'm the only one either, so stop it. It's annoying.

Rather than continue your failing why don't you just wait for Black Angel to come back and do what I said might be done. Addition or revision.

[The Wang Master]

No, wrong again. When you read a book like thems you read it for a certain tone, if the horror novel isn't scary, you wont finish it. If the writer spends more time grossing you out than setting an intense mood would you have a **** to give?

[nightsavior]

oh man your more entertaining then a barrel of rabid weasels. lol. you say i'm faking my enthusaism. nope. i really liked what i read. you also say i'm on the defensive. not really. i just think if someone doesn't give a flying **** about people's feelings they shouldn't be put in a position of power. by judging me fairy you prove that you are much more narrow minded and ignorant then you'd care to admit. either that or you're just having a really bad day. if you are having a bad day hey, that's cool. everyone gets one. strike me twice though and i'll beat the crap outta ya! actually not really i mean what can a geek like me do in cyber space anyway. lol. i'll let your words speak for you man. heck after those last two posts of yours i don't even have to try to make you look bad. you did all my work for me. still redemption is for all even the wacky arbiter of life and death.lol. here's to hoping you break outta your cocoon of prick-dom someday.

[The Wang Master]

Rather than continue your failing why don't you just wait for Black Angel to come back and do what I said might be done. Addition or revision.

and fairy IMO if you split this..and you should..put it in that "as of me" thread of yours lmao..they are both turning into the same thing! lol

Okay I tried to be subtle, don't post in this thread anymore, you've been warned.

[Laggy]

ok how about none of us pots in this thread til the Black Angel gets here..as for the worn i dont see where he did anything you didnt..that warning isnt a real one..just means stop posting here ok...take this fight to the "as of me" thread please

[The Wang Master]

Like I said, it was a get out of the thread type warning. I have a Penis monkey in my pillows.

[Lancet Jades]

this has outgrown its usefulness.

C.L.O.S.E.D